young and underemployed wrote:
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
LOL.
Running 16 miles at even a crawling 7:30 pace takes only two hours.
If you can't find two hours each and every day for your passion, it's not a passion.
BTW, the subject of the video, Bernard Koech, only ran a 2:08:30 today, with a sizable negative split.
boomtown rascals wrote:
Sciatica Road wrote:Well, the "numbers game" plays into it hugely. Imagine if we had 20-30 Ryan Halls training together at altitude. On race day, we might expect one of them to punch a 2:05.
You might enjoy this video:
http://vimeo.com/76935417It must be the white Wonder Bread (at 4:30 into the video) they got from the Americans?
Edit: sorry, meant positive split. he caved.
Guys like Llano, Proctor, Riley, Morgan, put it all out on the line on a day like this. Some execute their race strategies, others don't. They have limited support, mostly self-built training groups, limited but loyal sponsors, and self-promotion via Twitter and social media. Cut them slack. There is no reason or benefit in taking shots at this runners. We're their core constituency and ought to feel an obligation to back these guys (and up-and-coming women) up when they need it, which is a day like today. Like the race itself it is a long road to success.
Well, not sure you are actually talking to me specifically, because I'm not knocking on anyone. It is what it is.
Jsiajskd wrote:
I think the problem was that you had too high of expectations.
I was banking on nobody breaking 2:12 so it was a pleasant surprise that Curtis? Brought his PR down by 2 minutes
I think you're on the money here. When I was writing the preview for the race, nobody stood out to me as being ready to pop a big one. I figured a bunch of Americans would go out and try and run 2:12 (or 2:10 in Llano's case) and that a few of them would get it or come close.
2:11:20 is a nice run for Curtis and I think he can lower that even more over the next year or two. 2:13:16 is a solid debut for Jake Riley as well. I did expect Christo Landry to run a bit better based on his results this summer, but he still PR'd by 14 seconds.
2:10 was always an optimistic goal, and credit to Matt Llano for going for it, but he clearly paid for his quick first half (65:30). He could have run a minute or two faster if he had taken a more conservative approach.
Sciatica Road wrote:
Sciatica Road wrote:LLano's half and Landry's 25km ARE indicative of low 2:10 potential (assuming they extend the aerobic endurance).
Point being, the time Landry was shooting for was not at all unreasonable or unobtainable.
Maybe in the future, but absolutely no chance on any course in the world today. And honestly, I really doubt either hits sub-2:11 at any point ever.
Congrats to John Dewitt who graduated from D3 last year and already cracked top 25 at a major marathon. Much more impressive than the pros who crashed and burned.
Collin wrote:
Maybe in the future, but absolutely no chance on any course in the world today. And honestly, I really doubt either hits sub-2:11 at any point ever.
Wow, not speaking for Llano, but I think that is pretty harsh for Landry. His shorter distance performances/times indicate 2:10 potential is there, though maybe he was over baked.
What is your reasoning on Landry?
Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?
If you have the ability, you don't need support.
If anything on Llandry, he may need to start training more specifically for the marathon. After mention of the "150 mile weeks" I was a little surprised to see his log only recorded one 150 mile week this cycle.
Le Chapeau wrote:
Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?
If you have the ability, you don't need support.
Because as Bill Rodgers has already elucidated, it is a lot more difficult economically now.
Case in point...a guy like Landry....it takes years to see the benefit of big training. Like the Hansons have said, it is the marathon training now that is going to benefit the results in two years.
So now Landry has 16(?) months before the big Oly Trials race. What if he could start patiently grinding away at those 150 mile weeks, properly recovering, allowing the body to absorb it? And what if he could do it at altitude, in the process? Probably going to require some support to do that?
When America's top guy today finishes behind a member of Kenyan parliament it isn't about the support or lack there of for training. These guys just have something different that as of right now we can't match. Does it mean we should not try? NO! The fact of the matter is until we start bringing in American marathoners that are born and raised at around 8,000 feet altitude and live a hard farming lifestyle full of poverty for their first 18 years then we aren't going to have guys contending to run 2:03-2:05.
I concur with you. There is physiological difference that is enhanced by the fact that the Kenyans and Ethiopians want to win a lot more than we do. Winning is their only way out of poverty. We have no idea what it feels like to want something so desperately. No way to quantify this but I think it is a big deal, if not the biggest...
I think something to realize with some of these slower times is that the best Americans are running lower distances at this point and time. The Americans pursuing the marathon, as in this race, were not top-performing college athletes or world-class at the lower distances (meaning actual contenders in the 1500/5k/10k WC or Olympics).
I'm not saying Galen Rupp will suddenly bust out a 2:06-8 tomorrow but if you're a world-class/elite American runner you're more geared toward the track distances when you're young. You'll try to win in the 1500m, 5k, or 10k - races you've trained for the majority of your life.
As was pointed out before by others, the average age of the East African marathoners is decreasing. I think the talented Kenyans and Ethiopians, though they can run very fast/world class 5k/10k times, are choosing to train for the marathon because they can make more money.
World-class American runners will run the 1500m/5k/10k first and then transition to the marathon later.
Basically, our really good talent is focusing on the shorter distances and lesser talent is focusing on the marathon.
it doesnt take 13:00 talent to run 2:10.
adsfadsf wrote:
it doesnt take 13:00 talent to run 2:10.
13:20-13:30 talent sound better?
GIVE ME A BREAK.They are sponsored athletes!!!!Their training is ALL WRONG WRONG WRONG.They do not run enough, they do not run the right workouts in training, and they are burned out on track work from their younger years, etc.It is so obvious why guys like Llano and Landry are only able to run 2:13s.
young and underemployed wrote:
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
Nope, it doesn't.川内優輝 / YUKI KAWAUCHI:1500 metres - 3:50.51 min (2012)5000 metres - 13:58.62 min (2012)10,000 metres - 29:02.33 min (2010)Half marathon - 62:18 min (2012)30 km - 1:29:31 hrs (2013)Marathon - 2:08:15 hrs (2013)
Sciatica Road wrote:
adsfadsf wrote:it doesnt take 13:00 talent to run 2:10.
13:20-13:30 talent sound better?