Men's 1500 @ Continental Cup Souleiman 50.09! Final Lap, 36.8 Final 300 over Kiprop

it's impressive because the average Joe/Jane runner will probably never dream of running a 50s 400 (for some a 60s 400, others a 70s 400, etc). yet these elite guys can run that off a pace that Joe/Jane would consider VO2 max pace, or rep pace, or a flat out sprint. but this is LRC, the land of runners who are 13:30 5Kers/DI AAs, making 200K a year and dropping sub50 quarters regularly in training...so i get why you are not impressed!

Mortimer Steinberg wrote:

How is this supposed to be impressive? Over 50% of the race was ran at basically a jog (~70s lap from 400-800m!? Did somebody forget to tell these guys it's a 1500m and not a marathon?) and then the winner manages a final lap that is probably 2-3 seconds slower than his flat out capability, which I'm guessing is around 47-48 seconds.

it's like the dunk contest...yeah players could never pull those dunks off in an actual competitive game, but when you give him a little time/space, they do some crazy stuff that the average bball player could never dream of doing.

If they ran 65/70 (2:15), and closed in 50/36.8 to 3:48.8, then the splits would have been: 65/70/57 (including the first 100m of that 50s 400m)/36

A fast last 700m.

400m 65

800m 70 (2:15)

1100m 2:58.8 (because 50 last 400m) 43 s from 800-1100m

1200m 3:12.0 (because 36.8 last 300m) 57 s from 800-1200m

1500m 3:48.8

Let's not lose sight of what's important here. Souleiman proves that even low altitude East Africans are genetically gifted.

Such a slow race. Jesus. and manzano I swear to god, bad leo is the worst.

that really sucks

cool kid wrote:

Such a slow race. Jesus. and manzano I swear to god, bad leo is the worst.

wtf? it was a tactical race and he was a second or so behind the winnner.

marcar19 wrote:Also, how do we know dusseldorf wasn't a short track?

because iaaf thought so highly of the stadium that 10y later they held the most important meet in their history there...

jjjjjjjjj wrote:What was the third lap run in?

from iaaf : 65.95 / 69.93 / 56.24 / 36.79

i don't recall Ryun's opening lap, but from newspaper reports iirc his 800 was ~ 2'03.6 then 58.1 / 36.5

The last 300m, fiercely contested the whole way for big bucks, in a 3:48 race on a springy mondo type track was still slower than Ryun's solo 300m finish easing up in a 3:38 race on uneven dirt in 1967 with no one to push him. Still think that Ryun couldn't have challenged Kiprop and Kiplagat in a 3:27 rabbited affair on mondo?

souly's 36.79 is only 4th 36+ finish i recall after Ryun's & aouita's alleged 36.1 in a 3'34.8 ( this is a doubtful performance as no one made any fuss about it back in '84 )

gonzales went ~ 36.8 in his defeat of cram in a 3'45+, but 3rd lap ~ 59s v souly's 56.2

Ryun's run was on a dirt track where a 10k had been run earlier

his final time was 10.7s faster than souly but souly ran a quicker 3rd lap of 56-low v 58-low ( probably about 1s difference considering dirt v synthetic )

souly has run 3'29.5 this year, which maya been quicker as he did go out quick as actually trying to beat asbel in monaco

i doubt souly is any worse than this currently as he holds form well in a season

the fact is that Ryun on chewed up dirt still ran a faster last 300 in a race 10+s quicker than that of a current 3'29.5 guy

the inescapable conclusion is that

Ryun wouda utterly & totally crushed a clocking like 3'29.5 if given synthetic/ultra fast pacers in '67

Sledge wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

I can't believe people are impressed by a 3:48 1500m. This means nothing as the snails pace technically gave everybody a shot at winning. Only a faster pace can separate the really good runners and, Monaco was it for me. Kiplagat beat Kiprop and even ran a faster PR. Soulemeiman tried to shadow Kiprop but couldn't keep up and got singed in the last lap.

Nervous? Souleiman has Kiprop's number in championship races.

Like someone said on here, Kiprop is still Kiprop. I think it highly unlikely Beijing or Rio will be run at 3:48 pace and even if, for whatever reason, he is off his game, Silas or Ronald Kwemoi should have it covered just fine. So, no. I'm not nervous at all. But I would be if I were American because chances of seeing a medal of any colour in this event are virtually nil.

wejo wrote:

Here are 2 old threads:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5062262http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5326387

They point to 49.7 for Kipchirchir not 49.4.

This one

says 49.4

big track fan wrote:

Can we just admit the men's 1500 is the best event in track?

Think about how good Kiprop has been historically. Then you've got two guys in Souleiman and Kiplagat who seem to have been better this year.

That's basically Federer - Nadal and Djokovic.

Then you've got the American based guys - Centro, Willis, Manzano - who can pick up a medal if the big guys get hurt, totally screw it up or blow up after going for gold.

And oh yeah, Makhloufi. I forgot about him. It's like tennis with the Big 4 but to compare Makhloufi to Murray is an embarassment.

I guess the men's 800 is pretty damn good as well but what else compares? Nothing is close. In the 5k, guys aren't consistent. The only one consistent is Farah.

Women's running? No depth.

Clearly Mens High Jump is the worlds strongest event right now

ventolin^3 wrote:

Ryun's run was on a dirt track where a 10k had been run earlier

his final time was 10.7s faster than souly but souly ran a quicker 3rd lap of 56-low v 58-low ( probably about 1s difference considering dirt v synthetic )

Ventolin, this constant line of reasoning of yours is wrong. A dirt track isn't automatically slower than a synthetic track. Dirt surfaces vary too much.

The fact that a 10k was run on it prior to Ryun doesn't make sense either. That 10k could have made the track worse or it could have in fact made the track better by flattening and compacting the dirt. This is what I have seen happen on dirt trails in xc races. By the end of the race the dirt is packed much harder than before the race.

You actually need to go out and measure the surfaces. You cannot simply conclude that dirt and used track is slower than synthetic. With that now said, you need to be fair and provide estimates for BOTH the dirt slowing Ryun down and the speeding him up.

The inescapable fact that you left out was that Souleiman's race was run very differently than Ryun's. Don't be dishonest.

ventolin's 9th personality wrote:

Ventolin, this constant line of reasoning of yours is wrong. A dirt track isn't automatically slower than a synthetic track. Dirt surfaces vary too much.

The fact that a 10k was run on it prior to Ryun doesn't make sense either. That 10k could have made the track worse or it could have in fact made the track better by flattening and compacting the dirt. This is what I have seen happen on dirt trails in xc races. By the end of the race the dirt is packed much harder than before the race.

You actually need to go out and measure the surfaces. You cannot simply conclude that dirt and used track is slower than synthetic. With that now said, you need to be fair and provide estimates for BOTH the dirt slowing Ryun down and the speeding him up.

What the EFF are you talking about

Sense.

Straw M Thoroughman wrote:

you just went full retard wrote:

What the EFF are you talking about

Sense.

Agreed.

How many personalities does he have on this thread alone?

Mortimer Steinberg wrote:

How is this supposed to be impressive? Over 50% of the race was ran at basically a jog (~70s lap from 400-800m!? Did somebody forget to tell these guys it's a 1500m and not a marathon?) and then the winner manages a final lap that is probably 2-3 seconds slower than his flat out capability, which I'm guessing is around 47-48 seconds.

I enjoy these type races. And even if everyone in the field is there at the bell, it does not follow that they all have equal chances to win.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

If they ran 65/70 (2:15), and closed in 50/36.8 to 3:48.8, then the splits would have been: 65/70/57 (including the first 100m of that 50s 400m)/36

A fast last 700m.

400m 65

800m 70 (2:15)

1100m 2:58.8 (because 50 last 400m) 43 s from 800-1100m

1200m 3:12.0 (because 36.8 last 300m) 57 s from 800-1200m

1500m 3:48.8

Just watched a foreign language (?) broadcast of the race here: -

and got the following stats for the race: -

66.0, 2:15.9, 2:58.8 at bell, 3:12.1 at 1200m.

That gives laps of ~ 66.0, 69.9, 56.2, 36.8 (50.0)

or for 300, 700, etc ~ 48.3, 70.0, 60.5, 50.0

last 200m was 24.7 (appeared to be on 200m line at 3:24.2 though not v. clear. Certainly somewhere between 24.6 and 24.8).

Last 100m was 12.5.

Last 500m was 63.8!! So his last 5 x 100m went ~ 13.8, 13.2, 12.1, 12.2 (24.3 stretch from 1200 to 1400) & 12.5.

Last 800m - 1:50.5/1:50.6

" 700m - 1:33.0

" 500m - 63.8

" 400m - 50.0

" 300m - 36.8

" 200m - 24.7

" 100m - 12.5

One interesting thing to note is that there was no clear side on shot of the athletes going through any of the lap times or at the bell. When looking at the video, Souleiman's torso crosses the line at 3:48.6, and the clock carries on for 0.3 before stopping at 3:48.92. This would suggest a residual error of 0.3 between the official clock and the one used on the screen. That won't effect his official lap splits and last 400, 300, but it could mean his actual last 200 and 100 'could' have been as fast as 24.4, 12.2!?

He also ran c 9 - 10m extra wide on first 5 bends, and had no drafting from 150m up to the bell (1100m) where one doesn't expect there to be any further drafting benefit. These 2 are worth about 1.4 and 2.4 secs respectively. Although it's academic he practically run a 3:45 1500 (yes, slow still) with a 50.0 last lap and a 24 something last 200m.

Mortimer Steinberg wrote:

How is this supposed to be impressive? Over 50% of the race was ran at basically a jog (~70s lap from 400-800m!? Did somebody forget to tell these guys it's a 1500m and not a marathon?) and then the winner manages a final lap that is probably 2-3 seconds slower than his flat out capability, which I'm guessing is around 47-48 seconds.

Yeah, why is there a thread about this.