Renato Canova: Can you explain why Galen Rupp can run 26:44 for 10,000 but only 13 flat for 5k?

Mr. Canova, excellent response! Thank you very much for taking the time and providing the wisdom!

I'm sure you are aware, but a good deal (maybe still the vast majority) of Galen Rupps 5000 and 10000 races were done during his college time and are not comparable to what most of the intl East Africans are "racing". In fact many of them included 2 x 5000's and a 10000 within a 3 day span, or even a 1500, 5000 and 10000 within 3 days. While great workouts, he wasn't testing his top end ability during those times.

Obviously after PRE this year, we also know that 26:44 is not his ceiling at 10,000. I think you make great points about the pressure though. There is a lot of focus on the pressure of getting the NR for 5000, yet what he really wants to do is get better at competing. Having a dual mandate is a bit of a contradiction, and it seemed in his last race he ended up running most of the race with the NR on his mind, but then at the end switching to try and salvage a good finish, and it all backfired.

Personally, I have a feeling that if Galen were in the same race now, that Dathan Ritzenhein or Matt Tegenkamp were in a few years ago when they ran 12:56 and 12:58 respectively, he would run a lot better than his current 12:58 PB if he sat back and ran how they did. But he's trying to stick his nose in races now for the win, which only works out when you are at 100%. Should be noted that his current PB is not set at a venue conducive to blazing 5000 times either. I believe only 2-3 runners have ever run faster than Rupp at PRE (or even on US soil).

Ritz -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVDDhIU1O1k

Teg -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeZonhz_GD4

Truth Prevails wrote:

Coach well written and precise as always , we are lucky to have you comment and dialog to silly posts like this.

Your words about patience have a strong meaning.

To be honest I think his record 10K took something out of him for this season and I think he runs with a "hangover" from the effort. I don't think we will see a big performance with last race of the season , might be best to just call it a season , appreciate the american 10k record and enjoy his new babies. Next year is important not another race this year.

BTW , the patience comment is very relative to the young high school american girl Efraimson turning pro yesterday. Im not sure she understands , nor her high school coach true international competition .

While it's natural to have a bit of a let down after a big race or record, I wouldn't count Rupp out yet. His first couple 5000's after PRE were good races, just not 12:50 or 12:55 races, but he ran very well. Compare the way he was racing in those to the way Teg or Ritz ran their 2009 races (see the links in my post above).

He's certainly sticking his nose in it, and physically much more of a presence and threat than they were despite them running faster marks due to being in faster races. His recent race ended flat, but he hadn't raced in 6 weeks and did have twins during that time. Watch how hard he's going from the start through 3800 meters. Where most are trying to turn off the brain and coast, he was on point the whole time. Cool that he was hungry, but not too surprising that he wound up flat at the end.

If he sits a little further back in his next race I think we'll see him finish much more competitively and if it's a fast race he will probably be up for it.

Have you watched most of his 5000m races? Because I've watched them all and I'm seeing something different than what you're seeing. I'm seeing a guy who sometimes can hang with the lead pack and then gets left on the last lap. Take this last race as an example. In that race he went out with the pacers and was the first guy behind them. It seemed like he was going with the pace which was encouraging. When Ndiku took the lead he slowed the race down, so much so that Rupp had to push Ndiku in the back because Rupp was still running a faster pace. The pace picked up and then Rupp took the lead and then slowed the race way down, even slower than Ndiku's pace. When this happened, the pack passed Rupp and left him for dead in the last 600m or so. The race was run in 12:53 or so and Rupp ended up running a 13:06 I believe. It has nothing to do with having twins. It has to do with him not having a kick. He's a great 10000m runner and I think that everyone should be happy with that. But to try and categorize his 5000m as improving or him going for it is just not true. He gets beat late in the race most of the time and it's usually on the bell lap. Nothing to be ashamed of but the 5000m is not his distance.

Rupp is one of the most consistent top finishers in the 5000 during 2014. He has landed 4th place finishes and a 3rd. It's just a matter of time befor a time compliments his racing and ability.

at oslo ----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE8jtdmrbBE

at paris ----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikdqWDZme4

His last race is not indicative of his better 5000 meter races. While I agree that he seems to lack the last gear to win a diamond league 5000, he certainly has the ability to finish in the "medals", and contend for a 2nd or 3rd.

I'm aware of a least 5 diamond league 5000 races where Rupp ran between 12:58-13:06 and closed between 0:55-0:58. The 0:58 was at PRE, the rest were all between 0:55-0:57, so his last race is not an example of his better 5000 races. At Oslo this year, he closed out in 0:57 for a 2:55 last 1200 meters to finish 3rd in 13:03.

His recent race is the outlier from his 2014 diamond league circuit, and it can certainly have something to do with having twins. If you can't sleep well, you can't rest well, and if you can't recover well you can be at your best. It's one thing to have one newborn waking up 3-6 times at night, but then add another! He may not be getting up to take care of them, but unless he sleeps in a soundproof cave, he is waking up a night.

He ha also hadn't raced for 6 weeks, that's a long time. In the absence of having babies born, it may have been a time to rest up and train well. But let me ask you this, would you have wanted to race an NCAA final or state championship having not raced for 6 weeks? Probably not and for good reason.

Consistency facts wrote:

Rupp is one of the most consistent top finishers in the 5000 during 2014. He has landed 4th place finishes and a 3rd. It's just a matter of time befor a time compliments his racing and ability.

at oslo ----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE8jtdmrbBE

at paris ----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikdqWDZme4

Compliments what ability? There are not fast 5000m runners this year. His times and finish places are exactly what they should be. He's not getting 3rd/4th behind 12:40 guys. He's getting 3rd/4th behind 12:5x guys.

Renato got one thing right.....

Renato Canova wrote:

What is a bit strange, under technical point of view, is that the big improvemet Galen showed in short distances during the last two years

I cut it off right there. WADA, are you reading this?

I could explain it but the fanboys will respect your opinion more. I have always known that this was going to be the case with Rupp, and certainly your Nicholas Kemboi is sort of a model to illustrate. Please take a moment and teach the boys a little lesson here.

Finish in the medals for what? Not the 5000m. He's run under 13:00 one time so that should be the outlier. I don't understand the mystery here. He has consistently shown that in the 5000m in international competitions, that he does not have the speed to compete in the bell lap. That's nothing to be ashamed of and I'm ok with that. He's a great 10000m runner for sure. I just don't understand why people can't accept what he is. He isn't going to run a fast 5000m all of a sudden. I'm not sure what he could have possibly done to make you think that the can contend for 2nd or 3rd in a championship race. Especially a slow sit and kick race. He, not unlike other Americans who have broken 13:00, benefits from a fast, even pace. When kicking off of a slow pace he's just not that effective.

Grazie, Renato.

Have you ever considered setting up an indoor race for your runners in August or September? Indoor facilities would love to host some WR attempts in their off-season. You could revolutionize the indoor track business model with a single successful attempt.

vinsonvada wrote:

Well, if Rupp's 12:58 is better than his 26:44, then the U.S. has been horrible at 10,000m.

There should be no confusion that yes, historically the US has been horrible at 10k.

Pre-Rupp, name the last great 10k runner in the US. You could say Solinsky, but he ran the race precisely once. Before that?

Check what happens to the female referee at 1'20

Rupp doesn't have a faster 5000 PR simply because most of the races he has been in haven't been fast races.

The exception is Stockholm.

And there his initial pace was too fast and inconsistent throughout.

You look at most fast 5000m races and the initial pace was moderate and it steadily picks up form there.

Here are his Stockholm splits:

2:33.3 (12:46 pace)

2:37.7 (13:09 pace)

2:34.3 (12:51 pace)

2:40.0 (13:20 pace)

2:40.3 (13:23 pace) (Edris closed in 2:29 to hit 12:54)

All over the place, not a good way to attempt 12:55.

It does show he couldn't do sub 12:50 that day.

His 2K split was OK but he didn't get there the right way.

Renato, thank you for the thoughtful response. Your efforts are much appreciated. I would say that your initial point about Rupp's 5000m and 10,000m personal bests being equivalent is closer to the truth than many here can ascertain, but even you appear to hedge your bets when you later add that Rupp has always been better at 10,000m and is somewhat of a 10,000m specialist.

I believe that your point about how indoor times can be overrated by some here is brilliant. I have known this to be the case, but many have disagreed vehemently. You have explained this well.

Do you think that if the best that have ever run (Geb, Bekele, ElG) were to have run paced indoor performances at their peak (late summer) that they would have run close to the same pbs indoors as outdoors?

Star wrote:

Rupp doesn't have a faster 5000 PR simply because most of the races he has been in haven't been fast races.

Yeah, this is why I haven't run so fast either...

reginald denny wrote:

Renato, thank you for the thoughtful response. Your efforts are much appreciated. I would say that your initial point about Rupp's 5000m and 10,000m personal bests being equivalent is closer to the truth than many here can ascertain, but even you appear to hedge your bets when you later add that Rupp has always been better at 10,000m and is somewhat of a 10,000m specialist.

I believe that your point about how indoor times can be overrated by some here is brilliant. I have known this to be the case, but many have disagreed vehemently. You have explained this well.

Do you think that if the best that have ever run (Geb, Bekele, ElG) were to have run paced indoor performances at their peak (late summer) that they would have run close to the same pbs indoors as outdoors?

Don't thank him, Renato is a drug supporting fool. You're better of listening to Ventolin than Renato. Rupp could go faster than 12:58 on the right day, you just need that day to happen and moronic threads like this go out the window. Renato proves time and time again he knows very little and is only good for pretending athletes don't benefit from drugs.

Renato Canova wrote:

About the PB of Galen in shorter distances, I'm a little bit doubtful about their real value, because all those competitions were on indoor track.

On the contrary of the most part of people suppose, on indoor tracks is possible running faster than on outdoor tracks, of course if we speak of indoor tracks of last generation.

Maybe, but I'm only comparing Rupp's 3000i to other indoor performers. Everyone faster than him had the same supposed advantage but outclassed him by a much bigger margin outdoors. Including the more recent ones Alamirew, Soi, and all-around 800+ GOAT Choge. And KB himself is one spot behind Rupp on the 3000i list despite running the event more often.

Sunshiner wrote:

vinsonvada wrote:

Well, if Rupp's 12:58 is better than his 26:44, then the U.S. has been horrible at 10,000m.

There should be no confusion that yes, historically the US has been horrible at 10k.

Pre-Rupp, name the last great 10k runner in the US. You could say Solinsky, but he ran the race precisely once. Before that?

Meb.