Ajax wrote:
Sometimes people have good races, and sometimes people have bad races.
^This. Often the simplest explanation is the correct one.
Ajax wrote:
Sometimes people have good races, and sometimes people have bad races.
^This. Often the simplest explanation is the correct one.
browski wrote:
Ajax wrote:Sometimes people have good races, and sometimes people have bad races.
^This. Often the simplest explanation is the correct one.
But, Rupp was trying to win. Is it even remotely possible that Rupp lost to a better runner?
Didn't a lot of you guys run in college? You see stuff like this all the time. A guy runs a 30 flat 10k in a time trial type race then a few weeks later at his conference meet he only runs 14:58 or something because it's hotter, the pacing's not as a good, etc. In this case it's a combination of 3 factors:
The heat at Oxy. It was like 85 degrees. That slows you down quite a bit in a 5k. Easily 10-15 seconds.
Training through. Oxy was a tune-up race. Rupp probably had a big training load that week.
Pacing. Even taking into account the above two factors, I'm sure Rupp would have been able to run faster if he had could have sat on someone at 13:05-13:10 pace
bigtool05 wrote:
Didn't a lot of you guys run in college? You see stuff like this all the time. A guy runs a 30 flat 10k in a time trial type race then a few weeks later at his conference meet he only runs 14:58 or something because it's hotter, the pacing's not as a good, etc.
Describes me exactly. I ran 30:56 one year and my next 5000m race I ran 15:28. The 10000m was a time trial race with about 20 guys ahead of me to pull me along. The 5000m was a solo effort in hot weather. Galen's race wasn't exactly a solo effort, but I can understand the difference in times.
X CUsEs wrote:
Every heard of excuses? Did it occur to you that someone else might actually be better than your hero, Rupp? Every thought that fanboys making excuses for Rupp is why many people dislike him: people like you are not helping him by making excuses for him.
So what is the explanation? The question wasn't why did he lose, the question was why did he run almost the same pace in a race that is twice as long two weeks after the 5K. Did Rupp start doping after a disappointing result at Oxy and then cycle off in time to pass the drug test he would undergo at a Diamond League meet?
There is almost no amount of cheating someone could do in two weeks to move from 13:19 to 26:44 if both races were all-out efforts.
Homunculus wrote:
So what is the explanation?
Someone else has to do the work for Rupp. Rupp will never lead a race until the near the end of the race. If the other runners decided to walk slowly for 90% of the race, Rupp would manage to walk even slower than them.
So I was at both meets. It WAS HOT at OXY. Weather at Hayward was pretty ideal with just a little wind. Perfect temp. Perfect pace, and perfect size of the field - not too big, nor too small. Make perfect sense that at OXY the were just training through - certainly willing to win, but much more concerned about the 10, 2 weeks hence. Just happened that the pace for both races were close. If it had been cooler for OXY he would have run 13:10 and then there would be less discussion. Who knows, he may have even done a real workout the morning of OXY - instead of doing it after the race.
explain please wrote:
Salazar said they were doing 10k training and trained through OXY HP. Salazar said Rupp could have run 10 seconds faster in his AR. There was a decent wind that night. So pretty much Rupp had a 26:34 in him, which is 13:17 pace, which is 2 seconds faster per 5k than he did in an all out one just a couple weeks prior.
Explain please
Basically it was a slow race, Rupp could have run a faster time but he was working on his kick. Also, Rupp was in a training cycle geared towards running fast the following week. - There you have it.
Basically, Rupp was beaten by a better runner: there you have it.
yyy wrote:
Daniel Komen got a warning for caffeine use. He never used
EPO though. He was a genetic beast freak with a lot of long
telomeres.
Telomere length? Since when does that have any correlation to ones running ability.
As far as I know this has never even been looked at. If I am wrong let me know what literature is out there because that would be very interesting and I have yet to come across anything of the sort.
I'm almost certain that there have been world championships or olympics where the second half of the 10K goes faster than the winning times of the 5K and for some of the same reasons discussed here. Heat can be a factor since the 10K's are usually at night but not always the 5Ks. But also the 5K's have to run qualifying round and sometimes the 5K favorites already raced the 10K.
Races unfold differently depending on weather, goals of the race, athletes goals that week etc. And yeah, Rupp may have also been flat from stress at Oxy.
The guy who mentioned it happening in college often, he's right. You can have a tactical competitive 5K that is won in 14:15 by the same guy who can run 28:10 at Mt. Sac.
True story: Once ran a 10k where I ran my first 5k in around 14:35 and my second in 14:43. 3 weeks later I ran an all-out 5k and ran...14:50. Don't ask me how it works.
Do none of you dense moron-excuses for intelligentsia skeptics remember Salazar BLATANTLY and SPECIFICALLY saying that he and Rupp were not planning on giving a 100% effort at Oxy a day or two before the meet? Don't get me wrong, Rupp fanboys rustle my jimmies just as much as the next guy, but the opposite end of the spectrum may just be worse.
Rupp tried to win the race. Rupp sprinted into the lead. Collis Birmingham out sprinted Rupp to the finish line. Salazar BLATANTLY and SPECIFICALLY lied that Rupp was not planning on giving a 100% effort.
jerry cherry garcia wrote:IT WAS FREAKING HOT AT OXY!!! Plus they didn't try to run a really fast time. Heat just kills you in distances longer than a mile, and it was in the 80s when they raced, it was in the 90s when the meet started
Yes - high temperature records fell all over Northern Cal that day, and it was even hotter down at Occidental College.
Could you explain this for me, not that long ago we were discussing how Rupp couldn't break 4 minutes for a mile, a few years on he is doing that at the end of a 10k at all time top 10 pace? Do you really believe that? This is like a guy who can't break 5 minutes for a mile running a 31 minute 10k with a 5 minute last mile. It doesn't add up. I watched mo run a race here in the Uk over 1500m in 2008, he ran about 3.45 flat out.... Now he runs that pace for the last mile if his 10k. Look at runners around you who have been in the game a long time, how many suddenly make a jump to a new level?
No worries wrote:
Could you explain this for me, not that long ago we were discussing how Rupp couldn't break 4 minutes for a mile, a few years on he is doing that at the end of a 10k at all time top 10 pace? Do you really believe that? This is like a guy who can't break 5 minutes for a mile running a 31 minute 10k with a 5 minute last mile. It doesn't add up. I watched mo run a race here in the Uk over 1500m in 2008, he ran about 3.45 flat out.... Now he runs that pace for the last mile if his 10k. Look at runners around you who have been in the game a long time, how many suddenly make a jump to a new level?
LOL Rupp says look at me in megaman mask I'm a 3:50 guy now guys!! doesnt past sniff test or eyeball test and you know farah works with ex-doping guru sprint master. lasers & gas & Nike power = u know what. more protect than elguerrouje when he was backpedaling 3:27 and blowing kisses to his majesty. joke joke FARCE!! lmao
When fanboys put on their Rupp-Goggles when they look at your post what see is: "Rupp has unknown, untapped, potential. Tapping into that potential, along with underwater treadmills, cryo-saunas, and other innovations, are what have stopped his asthma and allergies, and give his newly found super-closing speed. These solutions are so obvious, even a caveman could see them.
Occam's Razor = blood re-infusion
No worries wrote:
Could you explain this for me, not that long ago we were discussing how Rupp couldn't break 4 minutes for a mile, a few years on he is doing that at the end of a 10k at all time top 10 pace? Do you really believe that? This is like a guy who can't break 5 minutes for a mile running a 31 minute 10k with a 5 minute last mile. It doesn't add up. I watched mo run a race here in the Uk over 1500m in 2008, he ran about 3.45 flat out.... Now he runs that pace for the last mile if his 10k. Look at runners around you who have been in the game a long time, how many suddenly make a jump to a new level?
Are you mentally Ill? Rupp was a 4:01.8 guy in HS. He didn't run any serious 1500's at seasons end throughout college. He didn't even really go for time outside of a few races in those 4 years. He was very 10k and championship focused.
Mo ran 3:38 as far back as 2005. Quoting some random 1500 from 2008 is dumb, he also ran just under 3:34 in 2009. If Mo sets some huge 5k pr this year you going to be shocked about that as well? Or wake your small brain up and realize he could have done it any of the past years.