Who has the fastest PB's for both the 400m and 1500m?

Nils Schumann

46,65

3:38,51

Coe clearly is best in this category with 46 and 3:29.

He also split 45.5 un a relay but it's hard to count unofficial relay splits.

Schumann and Stember are great adds to the list.

Did Joaquim Cruz go faster than his junior best of 48"3(Alt)?

His 1500 pb was 3'34"63

Let's Get it Right wrote:

Wtfunny wrote:

Jim Ryun: 43.00->3:20

Ha, Pretty sure Ryun never did 43.00.

Adjusted for dirt track, primitive Kansas training methods, lacks of PEDs, etc.

Alanson wrote:

Let's Get it Right wrote:

Ha, Pretty sure Ryun never did 43.00.

Adjusted for dirt track, primitive Kansas training methods, lacks of PEDs, etc.

Could you imagine what Jim Ryun could run in an "oxygenated environment" like the one Seb Coe ran in when he did that fake 1:41 of his? Probably 40.8, relaxed.

My college teammate ran 47.8 in the 400 and could only run in the 11.6 range for the 100. He was a 400 runner. I would imagine somebody who is a 1500 runner running a high 47 on strength alone would have trouble running under 12. It seems paradoxical, but the reality is the start and acceleration adds about a second for a good starter over a flying 100. For a distance running who lacks the power to start fast, it might add more like 1.5 seconds. So that distance runner running a 48 flat 400 is probably splitting each hundred about like this: 12.5, 11.5, 11.7, 12.3. from 50m to the 200m mark of that race, he is probably running about 95% of max speed. Distance runners commonly even-split a 400, unlike sprinters, who always positive split their fastest 400s.Keep in mind that a mid-distance runner is going to be able to run much closer to his maximum 100% speed in the 400 than a sprinter, typically, he just doesn't have as good of maximum speed though.Think of it another way: You have a distance runner with a wicked fast 1500 (3:35 range) who can only run about a 48 in the 400. What other explanation is there for the huge difference in quality between his 400 and his 1500 other than a massive lack in top end speed/acceleration? So to suggest he might struggle to break 12.0 in the 100m is logical.My pr in the 100 is 11.7, my flying 100 is about 10.4. I have more top end speed than all of my distance runner friends, which includes a sub 4 miler.

jjjjyhsh wrote:

starmiler wrote:

Not sure that's true, "Realism." There are plenty of 48-second-ish 400 meter runners -- long sprinters, not people with middle distance strength -- who can't break 11.0 for 100 meters.

Who are these plenty? Let's see some numbers. And he said 11.3 at worst.the question he answered was ''can they break 12?".

Middle Distance Analyst wrote:

Alan Webb - 47.3, 3:30

When did Webb run the alleged 47.3???

Coe is a beast when examined in this light.

Hardloper wrote:

Let's Get it Right wrote:

Ha, Pretty sure Ryun never did 43.00.

perfect pacing on modern synthetic track with wabbits to the bell

get it in your peabrain head

First of all, there were no modern synthetic tracks when Ryun was running. And I seriously DOUBT that Ryun ever did 43.00. Pretty sure that would have been the WR at that time.

Realism wrote:

Subfive wrote:

What could these runners do the 100M in? Is sub 12 a good estimate?

are you retarded?

you realize anything under a 48.00 400m is AVERAGING 4 sub-12 100ms in a row?

anyone who can run under 48 for an open 400m has close to 11 flat 100m speed, maybe 11.2 or 11.3 at worst

starmiler wrote:

Not sure that's true, "Realism." There are plenty of 48-second-ish 400 meter runners -- long sprinters, not people with middle distance strength -- who can't break 11.0 for 100 meters.

Actually "Realism" is downright clueless. There are runners who can break 48 but not break 12.0 for 100 meters, especially mid-distance types with great speed endurance but no need for acceleration. If he doesn't see how that's possible, he doesn't understand athletics.

Sub-five's guess was pretty close, some of those guys could break 12, a few of them could not break 12, none of them could run 11.3.

runlight wrote:

Schumann and Stember are great adds to the list.

Did Joaquim Cruz go faster than his junior best of 48"3(Alt)?

His 1500 pb was 3'34"63

I have seen a 46.0 cited at sometime, somewhere for Cruz. I have no idea if this actually happened. Obviously, one would have to expect that Cruz, in 1:41.77 shape was capable of running close to or under 46.00 for 400 meters, as he was relatively mediocre over 1500/mile, and saw some precipitous drop-off even at 1000 meters...

jjjjyhsh wrote:

starmiler wrote:

Not sure that's true, "Realism." There are plenty of 48-second-ish 400 meter runners -- long sprinters, not people with middle distance strength -- who can't break 11.0 for 100 meters.

Who are these plenty? Let's see some numbers. And he said 11.3 at worst.the question he answered was ''can they break 12?".

Are you joking? Finding sub-48 400 runners who can't break 11 is super easy. Here is the first guy I pulled off the D3 performance list:

11.27, 47.66

Let's see the numbers of someone - even ONE guy - who's best distance is 800 who can run 11.3.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Middle Distance Analyst wrote:

Alan Webb - 47.3, 3:30

When did Webb run the alleged 47.3???

Open 400 his frosh yr at UM.

Keepin it Real wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:

When did Webb run the alleged 47.3???

Open 400 his frosh yr at UM.

Could you post a link, please? If this is true, Webb was capable of running much, much faster at 800 meters.

Hardloper wrote:

Let's see the numbers of someone - even ONE guy - who's best distance is 800 who can run 11.3.

I recall a Mr. Jarmila Kratochvílová who ran 100 meters in 11.09 a couple of seasons before he broke the WR in the 800. He also broke the WR in the 400 that year, so his basic speed was probably no worse at that time. And his margin over his competitors was much larger in the 800 than 400.

Plenty of other gentlemen have been capable of this; certainly Alberto Juantorena was, and since he set two WRs at 800 meters and none at 400 meters, the 800 was probably his best event. IIRC, he ran the first 200 of his anchor leg in the 4 x 400 relay at the 1976 Olympics in 20.2, in a futile effort to chase down the leaders.

Hardloper wrote:

Realism" is downright clueless. There are runners who can break 48 but not break 12.0 for 100 meters, especially mid-distance types with great speed endurance but no need for acceleration. If he doesn't see how that's possible, he doesn't understand athletics.

Sub-five's guess was pretty close, some of those guys could break 12, a few of them could not break 12, none of them could run 11.3.

As usual, you're wrong. I know a few fast miles at that level that could indeed run 11.3.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Keepin it Real wrote:

Open 400 his frosh yr at UM.

Could you post a link, please? If this is true, Webb was capable of running much, much faster at 800 meters.

He ran 1:43 in '07 - two seconds off ther WR at that time. Just how much faster was he supposed to be able to run? Especially considering he wasn't an 800m specialist. Juantorena ran a 44.2PR for the 400 and his best 800 was 1:43.4.

When people talk about short sprinters being the most talented, it's examples like these guys who prove that wrong. The most talented runners have both. Speed and range.

We all know Webb was good for a faster 800m than he ever ran..

Realism wrote:

Subfive wrote:

What could these runners do the 100M in? Is sub 12 a good estimate?

are you retarded?

you realize anything under a 48.00 400m is AVERAGING 4 sub-12 100ms in a row?

anyone who can run under 48 for an open 400m has close to 11 flat 100m speed, maybe 11.2 or 11.3 at worst

Earlier this year, I argued that Farah could probably sprint (FAT) a sub 12 100m. But there are those who say ...no, he can't. He actually did 12.9 in an relatively serious race. I suspect he can't go faster than that.

The belief by some "knowers-of-running" is that most of these star distance runners can not break 12 for 100m...even if they can can close in 53-51 in distance races.