Lets just make it official , get the kid on the track , get some pacers to help out and we will know with certainty what his ability is or is not.
Now is speculation on road times , splits in races , cut the BS and get the truth.
Lets just make it official , get the kid on the track , get some pacers to help out and we will know with certainty what his ability is or is not.
Now is speculation on road times , splits in races , cut the BS and get the truth.
Sasha Pachev wrote:
I am Benjamin's dad. His times are good, but I am well aware that there are kids his age that have more talent. For example, Conner Mantz ran the same Utah Valley Half marathon course in 1:13:19 at the age of 14 in 2011. I think the reason we are impressed with anything sub-1:20 in the half for a 14 year old is that our distance training approach is messed up. There are very few kids that age that have a healthy aerobic base. Essentially they run off their talent before they start high school. When they start high school with rare exceptions they train speed before building adequate base. This has three negatives:
- The heart is forced to work at an intensity that it is not yet conditioned for. Our heart is designed to be a slave. It is one organ that is absolutely not allowed to fail. So when pushed, it will do what it takes to keep you going. But this has a cost.
- The young muscles are strong, but not yet resilient. Also the bones are not fully mature. High intensity workouts done by competitive young men thus result in a large number of injuries.
- The hormonal system of a young man somewhat resembles his muscles. He can produce a strong drive, but the glands are not fully mature and are subject to wearing out.
As a result we see respectable performances in 1600/3200 meters in high school, and decent times in college, but those who manage to achieve something afterwards are more of an exception.
The proper approach, I believe, is to start at a young age, as young as you can convince a kid to run, and have him run frequently, but most of it at a comfortable pace that he naturally chooses as long as he keeps it faster than 10:00 mile which he will do if he is mentally alert. As they get older, gradually add the mileage, and throw in some very modest intensity work, but be very careful not to overwork the young man. Good diet, plenty of sleep, and get rid of junk activities that cause stress and eat up the precious time without much payback to the extent that you are able. If enough people start doing this, we may discover that we can beat the Kenyans after all.
Hi, thanks for contributing. I would have to generally agree with you about the base, and not doing excessive anaerobic work. Short sprints are great to promote neuromuscular coordination and turnover. However, all base, and no speed, turn you into a plodder. Some 13yo in Queensland (Oz) just set the world record for 1/2M 1:18.53. He used to run a pretty good 800m-now that's deteriorated badly. If you sacrifice speed on the altar of endurance, it is likely to end in disappointment.
Calling the Garrison Patriarch (and matriarch too, she's awful as well) an elite-level douchebag is an insult to an elite-level douchebags.
He's a SOCIOPATHIC MONSTER.
I wonder if Jimmy G still lurks around these parts:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=117052&page=3[/link
Truth is spoken wrote:
Lets just make it official , get the kid on the track , get some pacers to help out and we will know with certainty what his ability is or is not.
Now is speculation on road times , splits in races , cut the BS and get the truth.
If you bothered to keep up, you will note that his track times over the last few years are well documented.
Hi all I laughed when I stumbled on this message feed back. Ok he was running with Steve first half way out in Euston road is very hard lots of heavy trucks. On the way back his hip started playing up so took it easy to avoid injury. He is good at judging this and never gets injured but growth spurts effect him when he grows.
Training about 60k now per week 15k long run, a day off 3k warm up and 3k cool down each day or easy 6 or 7k. 30k in warm ups and easy runs 15 long run race 5k or tempo 7k rest all track work which is only about 6k over 2 days.
Hows he do it I am a coach but he is different he has been running since about 6 had and used to run 1 k 3 times a week he was poorly coordinated still is a bit so I taught him to run. What's different between him and other kids I coach his age started at about 7 when I noticed he didn't open his mouth even in 1k cross country races. Does now but must have excellent ability to process Oxygen from a young age. Could easily run sub 1:14 for halfs these are country runs he gos to this was flat but Orange very hilly he gets better with the distance he will no doubt run marathons one day. Cheers all
my jizz split a 7.4x10E-4 for half way during a 100 miler
Raymon Ornelas will be 14 in Sept and he followed up the 8k the following week running a 10K in Riverside with a time of 32.09 at a 5:11 pace.
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5654370#ixzz2vbsJL1sw
Don't presume to know anything before commenting please. Why is it easier for people to tear down than pro up. None of my kids or my train g group are flogged its really offensive to both myself and them I actually reckon we are the slackest group out. So how is done. At about 7 most little kids try athletics, with the ones I train I like them all to do cross country its more fun and not serious. I coach 6 days a week my kids and others come to me when they are available. They run 1k, 2k, 3k and so on never. So the girl that ran 2:15 does about 30k per week no other sport. Never more than 3x their age per week until high school. Its not the distance guys its the pattern do anything often enough you will get good at it. Start early don't over do it just wait and it will happen. All the health concerns are so wrong your heart will be better and stronger even when older your bones will be stronger because it's mild progression and impact. Back off on teen girls altogether teen boys watch growth spurt issues and have fun. Its about lifetime k's so by the time they are 12 they have a training age of 5 with life time k's
List of age specific records here
Age records for additional track distances and field events here
10,000 meters
13yo 33:39.5 Dalibor Balgač Zagreb 14 Sep 91
14yo 32:04.4 Hans Segerfeldt SWE Karlskrona 28 Jun 75
10K road
13yo n/a
14yo 29:16 Damian Paul Chopa (TAN) Arusha TAN 22 Jul 2001 (he a 5000m PB of 13:24.03 at 18 then disappeared)
Half-Marathon
13yo 1:18:53 Jacob Bragg (AUS) Brisbane AUS 04 Aug 2013
14yo 1:16:14 Mitch Kingery (USA) Madera CA USA 02 Jan 1971
Sammy Wanjiru ran 59:15 at 18.
mmm. Not BS but very hard bitumen out there with the vineyards he felt some pain in his hip so backed it down. Common sense really.
Apparently, none of you can read. He is 15 or 16 years old currently"http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/runner-takes-it-all-in-his-stride-20130907-2tc01.html Article was published September 8,2013:
Joshua Torley, 14, will compete in The Canberra Times Fun Run on Sunday. Photo: Rohan Thomson
AT 14 years of age Joshua Torley is a rising star in the world of running.
The Melrose High School student will run in the Canberra Times Fun Run 10-kilometre race on Sunday and plans to finish it in less than 32 minutes.
So, did time stand still for him while it moved forward for everyone else?
Well guys no Bitumen road a few years on at 16 wanted to see what he can do for the half 1:07.06 Melb 2015 7th. Still the same old training ethinc. can't run fast? 8:25 for 3k at 15 and 14:30 for 5k fast enough runs sub 4 1500m in training. split 10k 31 :01 back 10k slight bit of resistance and ramp also lost the front runners a bit finished 7th in Aus 1/2 Champs.
you better be vegan....
1:07:06 at age 16 is pretty good.
RunWild wrote:
14 year old or not, I will call BS that the 10k split is accurate OR the half marathon itself was acccurate. I would expect a 14 year old to run 1:13-1:14ish with that 10k split, not self destruct to a 1:18
When I was running in the 70s, we had a 12 year old splitting faster than that.
He never ended up anywhere special. There's no need to feed your anxieties about your lack of worth.
And I think your expectations for him are totally wrong. I would certainly expect a self destruct if he was at his limit at 10k..
He's slightly ungainly taller one in pink.
Paul Torley wrote:
Well guys no Bitumen road a few years on at 16 wanted to see what he can do for the half 1:07.06 Melb 2015 7th. Still the same old training ethinc. can't run fast? 8:25 for 3k at 15 and 14:30 for 5k fast enough runs sub 4 1500m in training. split 10k 31 :01 back 10k slight bit of resistance and ramp also lost the front runners a bit finished 7th in Aus 1/2 Champs.
Nice running & coaching. Thanks for the info.
Victor Maitland wrote:
Thisiswhatmakesthissitegreat wrote:Calling the Garrison Patriarch (and matriarch too, she's awful as well) an elite-level douchebag is an insult to an elite-level douchebags.
He's a SOCIOPATHIC MONSTER...
Holy McChrist! His "coaching" and "parenting" alone mark him as a sociopath, but I never guessed that the reach of his evil was so broad and deep and horrific. He should be stripped naked and have various objects with a coarse, even spiky texture rammed into his bunghole. Problem is, he might enjoy that. Disgusting human being.
Hey Kevin, how's it going?