Wang Junxia - Was she on peds or was she on PEDs???

Ma was the Salazar of his day. He found ways to cheat the system. It wouldn't surprise me if Ma was religious and felt that God wanted him to make the Chinese the best runners on Earth.

reed wrote:

i don't think the track was short, but if that were the case, then the 100m wouldn't necessarily be short as well. maybe the turns were shorter

Those would be some awfully tight turns.

reed wrote:

I firmly believe that all of those times either never happened or doping was abused severely. how hard could it be for the chinese to just lie about an event?

They happened. Omega's timers were there from Switzerland. That should be proof enough that, irrespective of whatever was in their systems, they ran those times.

And again in Shanghai in 1997.

The Animal Within wrote:

I would go as far as to say a short track. Anyone think someone couldn't build a 380 meter track and say its legit? Is the track still there?

Then again there always was the conspiracy theory that Stanford was short. I mean who could believe the countries best could run well in perfect conditions with multiple pacers?

The China thing... Who knows.

The problem with the theory about the short track that might no longer exist, is that even if we ignore the lack of fast times from the men, what about the fast Chinese women's times from 1997 at Shanghai?

Wasn't that the same Shanghai track used in a Diamond league meeting in recent years? So that one still exists and is considered legit. If super fast times can be run in 1997, why did they need a short track in 1993?

The lack of fast times from the men in both cases suggests something other than the track helped those record runs in both cases.

I have more faith on Wang Junxia being clean than Carmelita Jeter. A million times more faith on Junxia than Jeter. I bet a million bucks Jeter is dirty while only ten bucks that Junxia is....

I have an Omega watch, and it runs way too fast. Just sayin'...

Here is a good article on Ma's group of Chinese:

http://www.quora.com/Sports/Who-is-the-biggest-lying-cheater-in-the-history-of-pro-sports

Sounds like it wasn't even Wang's fault, Ma just put them on an evil training regime and forced them to dope without even telling them. Once they got rid of Ma, Wang tried to continue with the sport clean and ran some more "normal" times.

Jeff Wigand, thanks for the background on that. Good God that is fast! Part of me says lets put the doping aside, which obviously happened, it was still an incredible performance.

Talk about being "to the gills", wow. I imagine if they got their hematocrits up around 60% and were putting in the volume they could be mutants.

If Wang was in a men's race that day where she could sit in a pack the entire way, I dare say she was in sub 29:00 form. That's impressive, despite the fact it wasn't natural.

IAAF should at least have an asterisk by the 1500, 3000 and 10000 records, like below.

* These records are totally retarded, but we can't do anything about it because China has a lot of money.

Paced by veteran Huandi Zhong, Wang reached the halfway mark in 15:05.69, on even pace to break Kristansen's 30:13 WR. Running well within herself however, Wang would quickly seperate herself from Zhong and unleash her trademark second-half kick.

Recording consistent km splits in the 2:50 range, Wang would cover the next 5000m in an incredible 14:26, 11 seconds quicker than the then-world record. Even more astonishing would be her final 3000m, covered in a scarcely believable 8:17.5, over 5 seconds ahead of Tatyana Kanankina's 9 year mark of 8:22. With a 64 second final lap, Wang crossed the line in a historic 29:31.78, breaking Kristiansen's WR by 42 seconds and becoming the first athlete to break the iconic 30 minute barrier - and by a significant margin. The final km was covered in 2:46.99

It would take 15 years - at the Beijing Olympics suitably enough - for another athlete to break 30 minutes and come within 30 seconds of Wang's record. The record still stands by 23 seconds.

A week later at the same meet Wang would set the current 3000m world record of 8:06.11 (4:07/3:59 1.5k splits). She reportedly ran a marathon a day, running between 180-200 miles per week.

801 dude wrote:

Middle Distance Coach wrote:

She had strongly denied being a PED user and her word has generally been accepted.

Lol. By who?

http://running.competitor.com/2011/05/news/the-top-10-running-doping-scandals-of-all-time_28190

There is a 100% chance the magical 1993 Summer of Chinese records was ill-gotten. 100%.

Any ranking of suspicious sh!t in T&F starts and ends with Chinese female distance runners.

If I were Dibaba and sure I was clean, I would sue the IAAF and make them defend that garbage in court. Because they wouldn't be able to.

I don't think you know what 100% means.

Hardloper wrote:

Here is a good article on Ma's group of Chinese:

http://www.quora.com/Sports/Who-is-the-biggest-lying-cheater-in-the-history-of-pro-sports

Sounds like it wasn't even Wang's fault, Ma just put them on an evil training regime and forced them to dope without even telling them. Once they got rid of Ma, Wang tried to continue with the sport clean and ran some more "normal" times.

People need to realize that SHE didn't necessarily dope, but she was very likely given performance enhancers. The culture with Chinese women and sports is ridiculous to this day, also peds weren't as well known to athletes as they are now. She will probably be the last world record holder that isn't completely responsible for cheating to get those records. Ma found things that helped them to train ridiculously hard, the athletes didn't question those things.

I think everyone understands that is likely or at a minimum, possible.

I'd heard coach Ma was so abusive that it must have been like being stuck in a holocaust concentration camp to train for him.

we're on to something wrote:

I have an Omega watch, and it runs way too fast. Just sayin'...

Which means it records more time than actually elapses. Think about what that means for this.

Not just Wang Junxia

All woman world records were done with doping. From 100m up to the marathon.

WR 100 Metres 10.49 0.0 Florence Griffith-Joyner 16/07/1988 – 25 years ago !

2 - 10.61 Lavardo Smith 10/06/2007 – the second world all time best 19 years later than FJ Griffith, still 0.12secs slower than JF.JGriffith

3 - 10.65 A 1.1 Marion Jones 12/09/1998 – the third world all time best is from Marion Jones that we know that was done with drugs !

WR 200 Metres 21.34 1.3 Florence Griffith-Joyner 29/09/1988 – almost 25 years ago !

2 - 21.62 A -0.6 Marion Jones 11/09/1998 – Once again the second world all time best that is still 0.28secs slower than Griffith, is from who else but Marion Jones, that we know that was done with drugs !

WR 400 Metres 47.60 Marita Koch 06/10/1985 – 27 years ago

2 - 47.99 Jarmila Kratochvílová 10/08/1983 – second best is older than the Kratochvílov world record. 29 years ago., done by the same runner that is the 800m WR recordist since 1983.

WR 800 Metres 1:53.28 Jarmila Kratochvílová 26/07/1983 – 29 years ago

2 - 1:53.43 Nadezhda Olizarenko 27/07/1980 – Second best done 32 years ago ! ! !

3 - 1:54.01 Pamela Jelimo 29/08/2008 – Pamela Jelimo is the third best , and we needed to wait 28 years ago for someone from modern training comes close to the 800m WR, but still 0.34 slower. During almost 30 years, hundreds of runners, like Maria Mutola and many others world top super female runners tried the WR but no one is still closer of the world record from 1983.

WR 1500 Metres 3:50.46 Yunxia Qu 11/09/1993 – done 19 years ago !

(1500m ranking by event performance)

1 - 3:50.98 Bo Jiang CHN 13/03/1977 1 Shanghai 18/10/1997

2- 3:51.34 Yinglai Lang CHN 22/08/1979 2 Shanghai 18/10/1997

3 - 3:51.92 Junxia Wang CHN 09/01/1973 2 Beijing 11/09/1993

4 - 3:52.47 Tatyana Kazankina URS 17/12/1951 1 Zürich 13/08/1980

5 - 3:53.91 Lili Yin CHN 11/11/1979 3 Shanghai 18/10/1997

6 - 3:53.96 Paula Ivan ROU 20/07/1963 1 Seoul 01/10/1988

7 - 3:53.97 Lixin Lan CHN 14/02/1979 4 Shanghai 18/10/1997

8 - 3:54.23 Olga Dvirna URS 11/02/1953 1 Kyiv 27/07/1982

9 - 3:54.52 Ling Zhang CHN 13/04/1981 5 Shanghai 18/10/1997

10 - 3:55.0 Tatyana Kazankina 1 Moskva 06/07/1980

11 - 3:55.01 Lixin Lan 1h2 Shanghai 17/10/1997

12 - 3:55.07 Yanmei Dong CHN 16/02/1977 6 Shanghai 18/10/1997

13 - 3:55.30 Hassiba Boulmerka ALG 10/07/1968 1 Barcelona 08/08/1992

14 - 3:55.33 Süreyya Ayhan TUR 06/09/1978 1 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

15 - 3:55.38 Yunxia Qu 2h2 Shanghai 17/10/1997

16 - 3:55.47 Ling Zhang 3h2 Shanghai 17/10/1997

17 - 3:55.60 Süreyya Ayhan 1 Zürich 15/08/2003

1 8 - 3:55.68 Yuliya Fomenko Chizhenko RUS 30/08/1979 1 Paris Saint-Denis 08/07/2006

19 - 3:55.82 Yanmei Dong 4h2 Shanghai 17/10/1997

20 - 3:56.0 Tatyana Kazankina 1 Podolsk 28/06/1976

21 - 3:56.14 Zamira Zaitseva URS 16/02/1953 2 Kyiv 27/07/1982

22 - 3:56.18 Maryam Yusuf Jamal BRN 16/09/1984 1 Rieti 27/08/2006

23 - 3:56.22 Paula Ivan 1 Zürich 17/08/1988

24 - 3:56.31 Dong Liu CHN 24/12/1973 5h2 Shanghai 17/10/1997

25 - 3:56.43 Elena Soboleva RUS 03/08/1982 2 Paris Saint-Denis 08/07/2006

Amazing that in the 1500m, 25 all time world best in the ranking of event performances, 20 were done in the past century, and from those 21world´s best were done by Chinese, Ex-USSR and ex-east European countries.

3000 Metres 8:06.11 Junxia Wang 11/09/1993

8:06.11 Junxia Wang CHN 09/01/1973 1 Beijing 13/09/1993

8:12.18 Yunxia Qu CHN 25/12/1972 2 Beijing 13/09/1993

8:12.19 Junxia Wang 1h2 Beijing 12/09/1993

8:12.27 Yunxia Qu 2h2 Beijing 12/09/1993

8:16.50 Linli Zhang CHN 06/03/1973 3 Beijing 13/09/1993

8:19.78 Liyan Ma CHN 03/11/1968 3h2 Beijing 12/09/1993

8:21.26 Liyan Ma 4 Beijing 13/09/1993

8:21.42 Gabriela Szabo ROU 14/11/1975 1 Monaco 19/07/2002

8:21.64 Sonia O'Sullivan IRL 28/11/1969 1 London 15/07/1994

8:21.84 Lirong Zhang CHN 03/03/1973 5 Beijing 13/09/1993

8:22.06 Linli Zhang 1h1 Beijing 12/09/1993

8:22.20 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17/12/1973 2 Monaco 19/07/2002

8:22.44 Lirong Zhang 2h1 Beijing 12/09/1993

8:22.62 Tatyana Kazankina URS 17/12/1951 1 Leningrad 26/08/1984

8:23.23 Edith Masai KEN 04/04/1967 3 Monaco 19/07/2002

8:23.26 Olga Yegorova RUS 28/03/1972 1 Zürich 17/08/2001

8:23.75 Olga Yegorova 1 Paris Saint-Denis 06/07/2001

8:23.96 Olga Yegorova 1 Roma 29/06/2001

8:24.19 Gabriela Szabo 2 Zürich 17/08/2001

8:24.31 Gabriela Szabo 1 Paris 29/07/1998

8:24.51 Meseret Defar ETH 19/11/1983 1 + Bruxelles 14/09/2007

Maserat Defar is only the recent one to go to the world top ten. However to do trust that Tatyana Kazankina did just 0.42 slower than Paula Radcliff in the years of 84 ? ! ? ! almost 30 years ago ?

10,000 Metres 29:31.78 Junxia Wang 13/09/1993

29:31.78 Junxia Wang CHN 09/01/1973 1 Beijing 08/09/1993

29:53.80 Meselech Melkamu ETH 27/04/1985 1 Utrecht 14/06/2009

push it to the limit wrote:

The problem with the short distance theory is that the men didn't run crazy times. Why would China dope the women, but not the men? I don't think the times are legit, but it's interesting.

Ever heard of the East German's; steroids work better on women

Now there is a new thing called wiki as well, its especially helpful for muppets like you:

' although 6 of his athletes were among 27 competitors dropped from China's team for the Sydney Olympic games after failing blood tests. As a result he was dropped as a coach from the Chinese Olympic team. Following this episode, he and his entire team of athletes disappeared for several months, fueling further suspicion'

António Cabral wrote:

2 - 10.61 Lavardo Smith 10/06/2007 –

You're going to have to refresh my memory on this one.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Ever heard of the East German's; steroids work better on women

Now there is a new thing called wiki as well, its especially helpful for muppets like you:

' although 6 of his athletes were among 27 competitors dropped from China's team for the Sydney Olympic games after failing blood tests. As a result he was dropped as a coach from the Chinese Olympic team. Following this episode, he and his entire team of athletes disappeared for several months, fueling further suspicion'

Why would steroids work better on women?

Short track.

Watch this video that shows parts of the 1500m record. The leader goes through 300m in 41-42 with the entire field in tow. Tiny women with shuffling form cruising through 300m at that pace, impossible! Then watch any 3:30 men's race and watch the men go through at the same pace clearly running fast.

There is a tread on this somewhere with loads of video evidence comparisons.

bigup wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AE

Short track.

Watch this video that shows parts of the 1500m record. The leader goes through 300m in 41-42 with the entire field in tow. Tiny women with shuffling form cruising through 300m at that pace, impossible! Then watch any 3:30 men's race and watch the men go through at the same pace clearly running fast.

There is a tread on this somewhere with loads of video evidence comparisons.

That's your evidence?