A Collective Effort to Maximizing Potential...or at least to reach the trials

As far as raising money, why not put in a webcam and let people watch for a fee? Kind of a "Sorority Girls"/"Big Brother" take on fundraising:) Have interviews with various members to show the "tension" between the members ("And then he wore MY socks, my special interval socks you know...")

Doug,

It sounds like you have been thinking about this type of thing before, maybe not seriously, but it has been there apparently. I too have much to offer, most of which comes from having a different perspective of sport and the human from than most individuals you might run in too. This should be somewhat evident if you\'ve been paying attention to that which has been passing through me and manifesting on this forum the past year or so. I would like very much to hear/see your vision. Don\'t worry too much about getting your words perfect, as I know that tends to take too much energy to do, a nice outline would give me the gist of what you have in mind. Where are you located by the way? At this point, i\'m living in a nice one bedroom apartment that i\'d be willing to share with anywhere from one to three more individuals so long as they can meet certain criteria, such as respecting a time to be quiet, no alcohol or refined sugars in the house, etc. Frugality can be a powerful thing and if you can truly get some money from fundraising that could be huge. At this point what I have to offer that could help the most is the way in which I see differently than most, a free room for 1 to 3 individuals, contacts with local healers that make training much more efficient, and about $400 - $500 a month to go towards other expenses the group/community saw fit.

LBSteeple04 where are you?

...local healers that make training much more efficient,...

Please explain?

Legalizit, get me an email address and I will shoot an email to you.

Why are you guys trying to reinvent the wheel. This is already taking place with the Hansons. Talk to Hansons. They are willing to take anyone with a dream. They have certain levels you must run for financing and housing but they haven't told anyone no. They are inclusive and approachable. hansonsrun@aol.com is Kevins E-mail. They obviously already have the leadership situation in tact.

local healers...accupuncturists, colon hydrotherapists, chiropractors, masseuses, etc.

my email address is found by clicking on my name, that is why it's blue.

or...agapeguy@aol.com

nobody is trying to reinvent the wheel here. hansons is obviously a much lower risk situation than coming out and forming a group in eugene where one of the major cogs of the machine appears to most to be a pothead who thinks alternative methods of training, if you consider nature to be alternative, is more powerful than the tried, trued, and stale methods that produce results that will never turn the world on it's head, but may get quite a bit of recognition for excellent performances.

lbsteeple04, how long does it take to get from rocklin to orange county? your missing your own thread.

I'm interested. I live in Portland, but I am going to college in Eugene next year. I am going to be training for races much shorter than the marathon, but I am still willing to do what I can to contribute. In fact I may evem be going to Eugene for the spring term, depending on how things go.

I think it is a really good idea, however, 90% of good ideas never make if past this stage, the drawing board. Is this going to be part of the 10%?

how is that email coming along nolimit?

has this been on anybody's mind lately? or was it just a quick flare.

As a young freshman who looked up to the star senior on the team I once said something to the effect of " Hey wouldnt it be great to get all the guys together to go live on a mountaintop and just run 20 miles a day, live simply and train our guts out?"

To which he replied, "I am on the mountaintop. Right here in Sig Ep, amongst the mung, boot, and empty Milwaukee's Best cans, this is my mountaintop."

You don't need to go to Eugene or anywhere else. Just start running 100 to 140 miles a week where you live now. Just commit to it and believe in yourself

Cant do it with you rent or job commitments? Bull. Check Joe Lemay's website.

I'm in once I get out of college. I truly feel that if I can get other to come along for the ride with me, we can make it the full trip. I'm a true mileage hog at a D3 school, but would give up my eligibility for a change to train for the trials or olympics. I know that if put into the right environment with the right people, we could work together to achieve our goals. If anybody ever does set anything like this up email me.

My plans are coming along here. I am on vacation this week drawing some ways this could work. I thought about whether I wanted to make the following statement in this public forum, but I think I need to so everyone is clear on my views and my potential involvement. I do not agree with the use of drugs(marijuana, etc.), this seems to be an ok area for Legalizit. I am not and will not be associated with any group that has members using or condoning the use of drugs. I just want to make my views clear here so there is no confusion as to my position on this. I am trying to coordinate right now with factions already in Eugene looking to make this a reality and am hoping to have the support, i.e. money(fundraised) or otherwise to get this thing going by the time May-June rolls around. This is going to happen if there is anything I have to say about it, so anyone truly interested here let me know.

Legalizit----when I first posted this message, I was real excited about the concept. I continue to be even more so, in that it is as I have expected. There are others who seek an environment to maximize potential, but have done nothing to actualize it. If the experiences of many can significantly contribute to growth of just one, it is worth it. I believe from the few posts that have been posted, there is a great amount of energy, both creativity, inpsiration and determination, that comes from those who have 'missed the boat', sort of speak. Who have trained hard, yes, but not to the satisfaction of that which drives them. I believe the more serious athletes that come together, the greater the source of knowledge that can be available. This enviroment is both my dream and my goal. The debates on what this environment ought to be are limitless. It ought to be. There are an indefinite amount of avenues, some more significant then others, that may be explored in order to reach a point where one is able to fully express, through movment of body and mind, the energy from within. While it is the individual who is ultimately responsible for the maximization of potential, it is the effects of the environment that will either support and nuture one's development, or redirect valuable energy to an unnecessary outlet.

The concept I proposed is not entirely original; obviously there are running clubs and track clubs. However, I would hope that what ever may be created with the people who have voice their interest, will not be an 'athletics west' or a 'hansons'. I would hope it need not be entirely specific to running. This would be too narrow. It would limit movement, both physically and psychologically. But this is another topic in itself. My immediate desire is to create an environment as I have hinted to above.

As you know, Legalizit, I have made a move to a place where I believe the energy is strong and will nuture my individual potential. It is evident that the men and women I am currently training with are Olympic stuff and will no doubt have a strong presence in the trials and beyond. I have pursued this avenue, unaware of how this thread has manifested itself. I feel now that where I currently find myself has some benifits to offer.....but is still not where the work ought to be done. I will most definately join you in Eugene, if that is where this is going to happen, however, only after I learn as much as I can from my current standpoint. It will prove to be valuable.

Not entirely running? Not like hansons or athletics west? I see these as some very good models to grow on. What things should be different or improved on? I understand that there are differences in training philosophies, but what else? It seems like you are talking bazzarro world. Please enlighten me. You are sounding more like a cult member than an athlete. I honestly am not trying to criticize but instead learn. But I don't get it.

I do not desire a cult of runners, although I believe cults and sports teams are sometimes not far from being the same thing. Cults generally carry negative implications such as they are exclusive to non-members and controlling over members; cults of this kind would thrive on insecurity. When I think of cults, I think of something very rigid, restricting and unhealthy.

Designing a training environment after the Hansons would be ideal in many respects; they have demonstrated their success as a group in some races this fall. I know no one who has or currently trains with them, or how they train, or how their living conditions support their growth as athletes and individuals. It might be of value to contact them and discuss these things. That is what a message board like this allows for. Maybe someone from the Hansons can enlighten us as to their personal experience with the Hansons, or any other running club for that matter. I am interested in how different environments can effect one's performance. Training theories are mostly based on the physiology of an athlete; what about the actual environment such as weather, sun, social groups, terrain, etc. These things can be modified to a certain extent and have a significant impact on reaching a goal or dream. I have slowly been learning this lesson, quite significantly, over the past years.

I propose the idea of a community rather than the image of a cult. A community seems more balanced in the sense that individuals who chose to participate are not bound by merely running together, but by living together.

I would like to create the best environment possible to maximize my potential. The more people, the more energy. People can channel it in different ways with different effects. You get the right combination and there it is....a new success.

There is much to discuss.....

How serious are you really? Want to find out? If you want to be the best you can be at running, why not do it right? It will mean relocating to (yes, you guessed it) Flagstaff, AZ to train in the only hi-mod-lo protocol in the country. I see people all the time who want to form a serious training group, but they invariably qualify the idea with trying to get the other interested parties to move to (name of THEIR city). You can see the same qualification being presented in this very thread. I'm interested in finding people who REALLY want to be the best - willing to relocate to the most favorable environment and to not merely be part of some "social running" clique. So far, I've only seen evidence that there are about three people in the country who are that dedicated to being their best (or who have the financial independence they THINK they need). So are YOU willing?

Why Flagstaff? Alright, it's at altitude, so why not Boulder or Alamosa or Albuquerque or Gunnison? The answer is that Flagstaff provides the requisite elevation (circa 7,000 ft.) to stimulate a prominent erythropoietin response AND allows for fairly quick access to higher and lower (even close to sea level) elevations. From Flagstaff, you can quickly get to Sedona (4,200 ft.) or Camp Verde (3,200 ft.) for threshold training and to Phoenix (1,000 ft.) for faster running. You MUST run regularly at l-a to maximize the effectiveness of the training. A trial period of a few weeks can be used to determine if you are an altitude responder. If you are a responder, you will never achieve your best performances WITHOUT moving to a h-a site for at least a portion of the year, so forget about staying where you are and asking others to come to you if you want to truly be dedicated to success.

Be prepared to develop a LOT of endurance from the ground up and to perhaps take more time than you think is necessary. This is not a quick fix. In fact, you may very well get SLOWER in the early stages. If you abandon the training for lack of TANGIBLE results after a few months, you are NOT really a serious runner and will not reach your full potential with any group of training partners or at any location (even Kenya, Japan, etc.). Alan Webb, for example, would probably not be a good fit for what I have in mind. This is not to single him out; virtually every runner in the country has the same "I'll try something for several months and if I don't get faster, I'll try something else" attitude. Depending on the individual, that's not always the WORST approach. It might be a healthy attitude (i.e., preserves the joy of the sport) for Alan Webb and for a number of others, but I'm not looking for people with that mindset.

Nor am I looking for people who need external motivation. I've got big news for you: The primary role of a COACH is NOT to motivate someone to run through brick walls. A COACH is someone who knows where the damn DOORS are and can teach the athlete how to find them so there's no need to bash his head against any walls. If you need somebody to fire you up and TELL you to believe in yourself, good luck with all that. You're looking for a motivational speaker, not a RUNNING coach. Just bash your head bloody against those walls, bub. I'm looking for people who LOVE to run and are ALREADY willing to be led through the doors and who will methodically and patiently pass through them while the other suckers are busy getting "psyched up" enough to endure the pain of bashing their brains out IN VAIN.

Now the not-as-good news: If you make this commitment, you will need to find your own sponsorship (if you're at that level already) or will need to have some outside means of income. Not only that, but I (as a professional running coach) expect to be paid a small monthly fee, as well as a 10% cut of any money you might make from races. Criticize if you like, but I believe time and services should not be provided for free. Chumps who give away everything for nothing are unprofessional and don't stick to their principles. I am a professional, not a chump, and I expect compensation. Besides, while free advice is often good advice, there comes a point at which (you know the cliché) "free advice is worth every penny". If you're not willing to make at least a small monetary commitment, you're the kind of person who probably won't last for the long haul and free advice will eventually just go in one ear and out the other.

Also, it is impractical to have a group which is TOO large. Ten to fifteen runners is probably ideal, so if this seminal idea comes to fruition, we may have to limit the number of participants and start imposing time (or other) standards.

Anyway, that's my take on it. As I mentioned, the training will likely be slower (at first) than you might be accustomed to doing, which will be necessary as you adjust to h-a and cope with varied terrain. You need to be able and willing to reach about 150 miles for your higher weeks. This depends, of course, on individual ability to adapt, but this is a WORLD class training protocol, not a typical American anaerobic interval program, and it is not for the person who falls apart at 70 miles per week.

So mull it over.

JK

I feel that you have a lot to add and that you are truly a coach of world class potential. However, I feel that you have to learn to think outside the box. Coaches that feel like athletes should pay for their services are living in the dark ages. Talk to Joe Vigil, he makes far more money off of speaking engagements than he does off of coaching. The Hansons are both doing very well financially because they have found other avenues to support themselves while coaching is their love. Bob Larsen has done very well in investments and only coaches for the love of the sport. Alberto Salazar does not need the Oregon Project to make his next house payment. It is wrong to tell an athlete to give up everything otherwise he or she is not willing to sacrifice enough. I feel that the coaches sacrifice should be of equal proportions. Afterall both should be doing it for the same reason, love of the sport. There is not that much money at the elite american level that coaches should be taking a cut. A cut of prize money can only encourage coaches and agents to over race athletes. I respect your coaching philosophies, but could not disagree with you more about a coaches role. We shouldn't all be fighting over the same nickle, and remember, there is only a nickle there. You share your coaching attitudes openly on this forum and many athletes I think have benefitted from them. Take your expertice and market it, it is valuable. The elite athletes can't afford it. Many others can.

I don't mean to sound two-faced when asking the athletes to sacrifice while I get paid (sheesh, good athletes ought to get paid something for their time and efforts, too). At the same time, I'm not going to hem and haw or backpedal concerning my stand that coaching runners is in itself a PROFESSION and not a JOKE. The "love of the sport" angle is no different than loving WHATEVER you do for a living; my point is that you should be able to do it for just that - A LIVING. If that's not the reality of coaching runners, that's too bad; it ought to be. I think that people who do it for ONLY the love of the sport need to reassess what they think their services or knowledge are really worth. I know that even Lydiard (at first) dispensed his advice for the sheer love of it, but I still stand firm that this advice SHOULD command a monetary value. Kyle Heffner and I do seminars, so it's not like we aren't trying to find avenues which do provide monetary compensation. And we're looking into a couple of other opportunities which may provide some income for runners in a group environment. Do YOU have any marketing ideas that might help?

You probably know the story of the repairman who came to fix a machine and took off the outside panel and proceeded to tighten 10 screws. He then presented the bill for $100 and the customer complained, "A hundred dollars? All you did was turn 10 screws. I could have done that myself!" The repairman said, "Yeah. It's one cent for turning each of the 10 screws. Ninety-nine dollars and ninety cents for knowing which screws to turn."

So, you see, having valuable information is (or should be) worth MONEY! This is especially true if the acquisition of that information is DIFFICULT or time-consuming. Hence, a Ph.D. holder should generally command more salary than a layman in the same field. I have spent my life acquiring knowledge of how to train successfully for running, and (as is often the case with long-term endeavors) that knowledge was acquired at a far, FAR greater cost than the mere time and physical effort it took to run 70,000 miles or the intellectual effort it took to crunch numbers and analyze with obsession the consequences of each combination of training procedures for not only my own efforts, but the careers of hundreds of other runners. That temporal, physical, intellectual, and emotional investment is equivalent to seven or eight Ph.D. degrees and SHOULD be worth every bit in monetary payback what those advanced degrees would command in the real world. You wouldn't ask a professional architect to design a mile-long bridge for free as a "side project" for the love of it, would you?

If other people want to be chumps, that's fine, but I know how to turn some screws that I GUARANTEE are NOT going to get turned anywhere else in this country, and I think it's entirely reasonable to be compensated for sharing this intellectual property.

In the meantime, I repeat: Do YOU have any marketing ideas?

My initial interest, that is, to maximize one's potential through a collective effort, seems to hook up in some ways with your interest--

"I'm interested in finding people who REALLY want to be the best - willing to relocate to the most favorable environment"

I say 'collective effort' because I have yet to be exposed to a truly collective effort. Legalizit labels it as a mastermind. Individual focus is challenging enough. The results of sustained focus are sometimes unbelievable. But there is something beyond individual focus. A collective effort, a mastermind, is yet another element in the all-encompassing formula of what to do to get to the top, but it is something I, personally, have yet to fully utilize. And it is possible, it is practical, and it can be none of these things. I am not trying to prove a point, but explain my perspective. I too am willing to find a group of runners who are as determined as myself to attain the goal, reach the dream, whatever. If a group wanted to form in Flagstaff, great.

However, one of my interests involves finding a group formed on the same desire. Simple desire, professionalism excluded. I am not trying to become a professional runner. Running is not a job that I want, nor desire.

I am not trying to start a "running clique", but rather initiate a movement of some like-minded runners who have thought about, but not acted upon, their desire to put themselves into a place that would most fully support their development for the next year or two. Maybe they have not previously been involved in the college running scene, or it was somewhat unfullfilling. The kind of group that manifests would depend on the creativity and dedication of the involved individuals; it would be something that we created. That's my interest as well. I do not seek a collective effort because of any lack of motivation on my part. I seek it because I see that it is an untapped resource of energy. I say energy to mean a variety of things.

JK, your prior experience with burnout signifies the importance of finding the right "doors" to maximize potential, without destroying yourself. I am sure you have great ideas as to how one can achieve this, as well as the importance of elevation plays in effecting performance. I am interested in this experience and would like to hear more about it...if it doesn't cost me anything ofcourse.