If the Japanese gave a $hit about bio-mechanics they would be unbeatable in 10k

obummer wrote: being efficient means not wasting a lot of energy (oxygen) with excess motion. her vo2 data won't tell you that.

Actually, as that other poster pointed out, VO2 data is exactly how you measure efficiency. In fact, it's the ONLY way to measure efficiency. That, for example, is how the changes in Paula Radcliffe's efficiency through her 20s were measured.

It's possible that if the Japanese runners had better biomechanics, they'd have better efficiency. Some of their marathoners certainly had some pretty awkward-looking strides. The only way to find out for sure is make changes and see whether oxygen consumption at a given pace improves.

I don't think running form or biomechanics is something you can generalize about. Form and biomechanics are as much about being born with the right shape as they are about training.

What I mean is that sometimes bad form or biomechanics may be a muscle weakness or a bad habit that can be corrected. However, frequently when people say someone should improve their form, what they are really saying is that someone should have longer calves or change the structure of their hips, etc. That obviously isn't going to happen, and trying to run as though you had a different body frequently gets people injured.

What can and can't be improved in a given person is a very subtle question, especially with someone with a lot of miles under their belt, which generally forces people to become more efficient in their form.

obummer wrote:

yes. horrible form. did you even watch the race? using quick strides isn't efficient if you have an enormous amount of excess motion (particularly horizontal motion). you are the same person who first thought that vo2 data indicates efficiency. now your second stab is claiming that quickness indicates efficiency. give it a rest because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. perhaps do a little bit of research before posting again? she had HORRIBLE form and no doubt would be faster if she cleaned up some of her wasted motion.

Sure, I watched the race. And I've seen her race many, many times. And, again, I think she's probably very efficient, but you'd have to measure her VO2 at race pace to know for sure. What "research" are you referring to? Give me a link.

Your simple-minded judgement of her form as HORRIBLE is based on nothing more than cosmetics.

Anyway, she finished fifth, far ahead of any of the American distance princesses, so her efficiency can't be that bad. And you don't run a 15:28 in high school -- Niiya did -- with HORRIBLE form.

Maybe we should get rid of WADA and the rest of anti-doping agencies and consult you instead when we need to find if an athlete is clean.

clean squeek wrote:

Ummm, ever heard of Jordan Hasay??

No. Why?

They don't look inefficient to me. just more blue collar i guess

If the Japanese want to improve their results, they'll have to start taking 'special vitamins'.