Yes, I have been a fanboy of Vicaut, Collins, and Patton.
I have also expressed that they may very well be using, and that the case for Collins being a doper has grown significantly stronger in the past year.
Yes, I have been a fanboy of Vicaut, Collins, and Patton.
I have also expressed that they may very well be using, and that the case for Collins being a doper has grown significantly stronger in the past year.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Yes, I have been a fanboy of Vicaut, Collins, and Patton.
I have also expressed that they may very well be using, and that the case for Collins being a doper has grown significantly stronger in the past year.
What about Lemaitre?
He is probably the only clean one around.
Patton is obviously doped. Maybe not his whole career, but ever since he turned into a 9.8/9.9low guy back in 08 or so.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
I thought all fanboys would have shut up by now.
You've been a Gay fanboi as long as as I can remember. You've clearly been on the side of assuming that he's clean rather than juiced. I'm not going to waste my time looking up all your ramblings about Gay, but this one from the thread you linked to is typical.
"I am also of the belief that Gay could be clean."
Don't come here and tell us that you thought he was dirty.
Sprintgeezer two of your list of "Not Caught" go down. Powell and Carter.
You're an idiot.
I have already posted and re-posted that I thought his 9.69 (+2.0) could be clean, but if so, only just.
I never said that he was, in general, clean.
I have also unequivocally stated that every single sprinter who has ever actually gone 9.80 or under wind-legal has been doped, but that if there were any who were clean, Gay, Bolt, and Powell were the best candidates.
Is France the fastest nation now?
What is happening this is depressing
Yes, Patton "turned into" a 9.8x-high/9.9x guy, much the same as the now-disappeared Ryan Bailey, about whom I've also voiced suspicions.
I doubt that Lemaitre is doping. He hasn't even broken 10-flat basic yet, unless I'm mistaken. His 9.92 had max wind, or close to it.
He was fast over 100, but not, I think, one of the fastest-ever, although he could still be. That belongs to Bailey, Surin, Fredericks, and Lewis.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Yes, Patton "turned into" a 9.8x-high/9.9x guy, much the same as the now-disappeared Ryan Bailey, about whom I've also voiced suspicions.
I doubt that Lemaitre is doping. He hasn't even broken 10-flat basic yet, unless I'm mistaken. His 9.92 had max wind, or close to it.
He was fast over 100, but not, I think, one of the fastest-ever, although he could still be. That belongs to Bailey, Surin, Fredericks, and Lewis.
What! Bailey and Surin are two of the biggest dopers of their era. fvck, Bailey ran 10.3 3 years in a row then started to drop 10.0s and 9.9s. Both were talented, but not that talented.
Lewis is probably the only one talented of that group to go sub 10 drug free and even he resorted to dope like the rest of SMTC.
Lemaitre ran 9.92 wind legal, simple as that. I don't know who else believably ran faster than that clean though.
Flo'da--
Why is it depressing? I think it's absolutely great, the only drag is that Bolt, Merritt, Jeter, Blake, etc. haven't yet been caught.
10.5 is very, very fast.
10.25 is super-fast.
10-flat and below is sea monsters.
You have to learn to appreciate the racing, not the absurd times, half of which are totally wrong nowadays anyway, as meet directors look for better and better marketing materials.
This is great, because a lane will now open up for somebody else in Moscow, who MIGHT be clean. Look to guys like Dentarius Locke, who are around 10-flat or just under.
I believe Ato Boldon was clean
Sprintgeezer wrote:
I never said that he was, in general, clean.
Of course you don't say that. The only thing you do is babble about whether this or that guy may be clean/dirty/whatever. And when some kind of evidence is presented you come back and shout out WHOAA!!! LOOK AT MEEEEE!!! WHAT DID I SAY???
You're REALLY pathetic.
Here's more of what I posted, back in 2010, regarding Gay:
"9.84 STILL wows me.
9.84 in still conditions is very likely a drug-assisted time, and if not, is the fastest clean time ever run.
Look at the other times in the race--THEY look like clean times, even Bolt's, which would be an excellent clean time.
Gay's 9.84 sticks out like a sore thumb.
The other clean guys to run anywhere near that: Bailey's 9.84 needed a +0.7 wind, Surin's 9.84 needed a +0.2 wind,
Fasuba's 9.85 needed a +1.7 wind, Lewis's 9.86 needed a +1.2 wind, and Boldon's 9.86 needed a +1.8 wind.
The only things close to Gay's 9.84 (0.0w) are Surin's 9.84 (+0.2w) and Fredericks' 9.86 (-0.4w).
Not saying Gay couldn't be the clean guy with the fastest clockings ever, but the regularity of his performances is suspect.
Fredericks, Surin, Bailey, Lewis, Fasuba, Boldon--they were all basically 9.9 guys who had a great 9.8 race, once. Gay does it all the time. No way.
It was still a nice race, and a 9.84 is still amazing. It would have been more amazing, and more special, if we knew that it was clean."
It's not depressing that the cheaters were caught...that actually feels like a breath of fresh air for lack of a better phrase.
What's depressing is that I've been holding out hope for some of these guys. Gay seemed like he could have been clean. But now that illusion is over.
Now I may have to look with greater cynicism at every aspect of the sport
It is YOU who is the pathetic POS.
If reports are to be believed, now it is Powell and Carter.
I have said many times that Carter was super-dirty:
"Here's a thought:
Jamaica is the biggest bunch of scumbags in track, right up there with the Mo Greene-led American dickwads a decade ago.
...
Carter jogs a 10.95 in the 100m finals, yet runs a WR-worthy first relay leg.
The only bright spot was that Powell didn't run.
...
But Frater and Carter, give me a break. Pure crap. I've always known that Carter was crap, but now Frater too, along with Mullings?
Just like anybody under 9.80 is suspect based on nothing more than historical statistics, now for me anybody on the Jamaican team is suspect by association."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4213417&page=0
"Carter is the dirtiest runner in track, maybe worse to me than Jeter. I knew it right after his reaction to his other-worldly 9.78 in Rieti. If you don't believe it, YOU explain to me his performance in the 100m final. I DO NOT trust that guy one inch. You know why courts of law are arranged as they are? So that the trier of fact can observe the witness' demeanor, to help judge their credibility. Carter is dirty as sin.
Powell's only saving grace is that he did NOT run the relay. It is the only thing that makes me think that he just might, might, be clean this year.
So, explain to me how Jeter is using but Bolt is not, how Frater miraculously improved at this meet, why Carter jogged the 100m final, and how Carter miraculously improved for the relay."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4213417&page=2
Powell was always the strange one for me, he was in an interstitial-sort of period in sprinting.
It's NOT cynicism.
You have to carefully consider things before throwing around doping suggestions, and when you do, you should qualify them.
My 9.80-and-below was always a statistical argument, just based on the proportion of those who had done it, having tested positive. That argument has only been strengthened, now that we have 3 more caught:
Johnson
Greene
Montgomery
Mullings
Gay
Powell
Carter
all caught.
Bolt
Blake
Greene
still outstanding, and may never be caught...but still dirty as sin, if only statistically:
Of the 10 guys, 7 tested positive: statistically a 70% chance of anybody sub-9.81 is dirty.
Add to that additional evidence in the particular outstanding cases, and it is a slam dunk:
Bolt--ridiculous WR's at both 100 and 200m, goofed and negative-leaned, beating all previous massive dopers
Blake--WR-quality 200m with missed start, ridiculous windless 9.69 beating all previous massive dopers except his training partner
Greene--Johnson 2.0, ridiculous body, ridiculous consistency, ridiculous attitude, other evidence from other people involved
It's not cynicism, it's realism.
And so the clean sprinter left is Justin Gatlin ????
I think we need to find out what these people tested positive for. Gay's case could be similar to Rodgers or SAFP (some kind of bizarre stimulant as I recall).
But you don't see 4 or 5 Jamaicans becoming positive at once without some serious doping going on.
lulz--
Wow, you really haven't gotten it yet, even though these guys are dropping like a house of cards?
Bailey and Surin are the historically-best candidates for possibly having been clean.
Fredericks is next on the list, followed by Lewis.
As far as Lemaitre goes, think of Bailey as Lemaitre with a start.
As far as Surin goes, he was a natural beast, and he still is, which is how you know he was clean. Most of the other guys from that era are broken-down, fat old commentators.
If you had any idea what the environment was like in Canada during their time, you would know that there is a good chance that they were clean.
Yes, Bailey was with Pfaff in the USA--but Bailey was perhaps the most perfectly-designed natural short sprinting machine I have ever seen. I'm not kidding.
And it's irrelevant that he was Canadian--call him Jamaican, if you want. He was, and still is, unique.
hey sprintgeezer
what you got to say about your clean guy powell now huh!
d--
It doesn't matter. In Gay's case, it is serious, like in VCB's case.
Same for Carter and Powell.
Gatlin is like Bailey was--a physiologically great sprinter. Long levers, big musculature where it counts, thin bones, small musculature where it isn't needed.
It's too bad he doped earlier on, because he was right up there with the best-ever clean. I'm sure he could have/has gone 9.8x-mid/low cleanly.
Is he clean now? I have no idea.
The one thing I know, and that I have always known, concerning the USA, is that Jeter has been dirty as sin, and that Merritt 2012 was also dirty as sin.
If THEY could do it, anybody could do it.
This is the tip of the iceberg, BTW. The NCAA ranks is where it all starts, not only in the USA, but around the world, since many of them come from the NCAA system.
Look at Rollins, she got a head start, she might skate.
Gay has made a fortune in appearance and prize money over the years. He should be sued by the organizers and charged by the Feds with fraud.