Adam Goucher slams Salazar

Goucher being intimately familiar with Salazar's coaching for years is one of the reasons I am reasonably convinced that Alberto doesn't do anything illegal. Goucher is not the kind of guy to sit back and bite his tongue if there is hanky panky.

Go uch yerself wrote:

Koneko wrote:

lol Goucher sees guys like Rupp running faster than he ever dreamed of, winning medals, and achieving great success. That just has him seething mad. It's hilarious to watch him break down.

Wow, you are an idiot. Goucher was one of the main people who brought American distance running out of an almost two decade slump. Also, I believe it is safe to say that there would be no Galen Rupp without an Adam Goucher. He was one of Salazar's main guinea pigs when the Oregon Project started building steam. Your post makes him seem like a slow poke. Why don't you actually look up his PR's before posting something so ignorant and arrogant.

re: "Goucher was one of the main people who brought American distance running out of an almost two decade slump"

I disagree, I think that credit goes to Hall/Ritz/Webb/etc. Adam (Davis/Coogan/Culpeper/Meb/Bore/etc.) are primarily 90s to early 2000's era athletes. On the world stage at the time, Kennedy was it for distance and for MD, Krum and Holman were the only consistent athletes on the world stage. It was several years later when H.S. and NCAA distance records started to be broken and a few years after that when we started to become competitive in international competitions. Basically, Adam was part of the slump years, albeit, the tail end of it. The improvement didn't start at the senior level, it started with H.S. kids.

Unless Adam or Kara has doped then I don't think he would want to say anything. Athletes don't call out other dopers it is not the way the culture works. You either get on the juice or get out. Athletes never snitch unless they are caught.

A Duck wrote:

I wish I could have gone to Oregon at the beach in Santa Barbara.

You are moron

Go uch yerself wrote:

Koneko wrote:

lol Goucher sees guys like Rupp running faster than he ever dreamed of, winning medals, and achieving great success. That just has him seething mad. It's hilarious to watch him break down.

Wow, you are an idiot. Goucher was one of the main people who brought American distance running out of an almost two decade slump. Also, I believe it is safe to say that there would be no Galen Rupp without an Adam Goucher. He was one of Salazar's main guinea pigs when the Oregon Project started building steam. Your post makes him seem like a slow poke. Why don't you actually look up his PR's before posting something so ignorant and arrogant.

Salazar coached Rupp before he coached the Gouchers.

Adam Goucher is Cuban

First of all he said "one of" and he certainly was. He was really the first american outside of Kennedy to get after the Kenyan dominance of the time. I remember a mile at the PRE meet that had been dominated by Kenyans where Goucher was running for 1st place and ended up pretty high. He really wanted it, like burning it. In fact if you combine that ferocity with Rupps diligence, talent and ability to stay healthy, well damn.

Goucher was a real competitor, he just couldn't stay healthy at all. He certainly had sub 13:00 in him and probably 3:33 and 27:0X.

I see Adam, Ritz and Rupp as being about the same initial talent level, but with different outcomes reflecting the sytematic development of the athlete.

Goucher: Pushed hard all the time, didn't do the things necessary to stay healthy.

Ritz: Wetmore and Ritz learned a bit from Goucher's setbacks, but still mistakes were made, leading to inconsistencies in training, coaching, etc., so intermediate in success in fulfilling talent between Adam and Galen.

Rupp: Almost flawless, long term progression, Salazar taking to heart his own mistakes as an athlete and the advice of Bob Kennedy, who knew how to sustain improvement. Of course the massive resources at Nike can't be ignored, but Ritz has enjoyed some of those as well.

Since I was the one who conducted the interview with Adam and am the only person who was on the telephone with him for an hour and 40 minutes and has a feel for what he was saying including the tone in his voice, pauses, emphasis, etc - I am weighing in. What Adam was saying did not have anything to do with Alberto Salazar. When I asked him about his college choices, he was very enthusiastic about Coach Wetmore. He was emphatic that he never thought he would leave Coach Wetmore. He wasn't slamming Alberto - he was just wishful that he could have learned how to be a 'professional runner' after graduating from college and while he continued under Coach Wetmore's tutelage. And posters on LetsRun are correct - Adam and Kara do not visit these message boards any more. This is common among elite runners as there is just way, way too much negativity and attacks being spewed by site posters who competed at a much lower level.

Thanks Gary/Gary's Interviewer.

My guess was that it was all in Adam's tonality.

You also make my point that elite runners don't contribute to this site any longer due the the negative cesspool Weldon and Robert have encouraged it to be.

Well this thread turned into a dud ...

Koneko wrote:

lol Goucher sees guys like Rupp running faster than he ever dreamed of, winning medals, and achieving great success. That just has him seething mad. It's hilarious to watch him break down.

Salazar fanboys = Lance fanboys before 2013?

the bruh wrote:

Koneko wrote:

lol Goucher sees guys like Rupp running faster than he ever dreamed of, winning medals, and achieving great success. That just has him seething mad. It's hilarious to watch him break down.

Salazar fanboys = Lance fanboys before 2013?

Yeah, and in 2006 Wejo that he was going to catch Jos Hermans in a doping scandal by translating some articles from Spanish.

I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the American male distance runners were not competitive in the 1990s. The peculiarity was that the Americans had one world class competitor at every event from 1,500 through the marathon, and there was absolutely no depth. The U.S. had Holman, Croghan, Kennedy, Williams and Kempainen in the 1,500, steeple, 5,000, 10,000 and marathon respectively, and no other Americans competitive with them. It was a real oddity, and I don't know how these fine athletes did it with such thin American competition.

Not really a slam. He just thought Wetmore was a better fit. Interesting he said he never should have gone to AlSal twice and the next question was about integrity. Seems to me the code was he wasn't willing to do "everything it takes" so he left.

Regarding Goucher, Wetmore had it right. He was a Fararri in a VW Chassis. Poor guy had constant injury problems, if he wasn't so fragile sub 12:50 and sub 27 was his potential for sure.

I believe it is fair to say that US distance running declined from the late 80's through to the early 2000's. We can argue who was running what time, and how fast they were relative to contemporary world class athletes. There are obvious exceptions.

In the nineties, Kenyans and Ethiopians started running at a whole different level. Times which seemed out of reach for white westerners, who had the then-modern science and training methods behind them- not to mention PEDs, which no Kenyan could ever afford.

Americans/Europeans started thinking: We have science, we have coaching, we have a decades long running traditions- so why are we having our asses handed to us? We all knew that for the east African, the outcome of a race could literally mean a difference of affluence and starvation. Is that why they were winning? People don't want to minimize everything to not being tough enough, especially Americans.

The advantage, then, must have been something not available to white runners. Altitude training had been known about long before, so this couldn't have been the difference.

What were Americans lacking? It must the kenyan physiology. It must be evolution or something. We all heard vague things about fiber types, extra muscles in Kenyans legs, and crazy Achilles tendons. Once this is what was decided by psuedo-scientists (the same ones who touted the benefits of heel-striking) track disappeared as a sport. Why train your butt off if you are fundamentally incapable of competing for the top level? We all know, in America, that Gold is the only medal that counts.

It took guts to go against that load of misinformation and realize that mental toughness is the greatest performance enhancer. Bob Kennedy clearly realized it, and I believe that Adam Goucher was one of the principle people who helped to turn the tide. I believe that, to some degree, Lagat was the catalyst. Some runners couldn't handle the idea of a "Kenyan," owning all the records, so they went into beast mode. BTW, Lagat is just as American as the next guy. Anyways, the moral of the story is that Adam Goucher deserves a lot more credit. A LOT MORE.

The Animal Within wrote:

Not really a slam. He just thought Wetmore was a better fit. Interesting he said he never should have gone to AlSal twice and the next question was about integrity. Seems to me the code was he wasn't willing to do "everything it takes" so he left.

Regarding Goucher, Wetmore had it right. He was a Fararri in a VW Chassis. Poor guy had constant injury problems, if he wasn't so fragile sub 12:50 and sub 27 was his potential for sure.

I agree. He is just stating that he wished he had learned to take a professional approach to running (ie business like, job like) while at the same time stating he was probably a better fit (in retrospect) with Mark Wetmore.

Adam Goucher used to wrestle lions as warmup for speedwork.

I remember reading an interview with Adam in RW around the time he first joined Salazar. He commented that it was sad that his joining to Salazar caused a rift between him and Wetmore. He had thought of Wetmore as a second father and that it seemed as if Wetmore took it very personally when Goucher left him.

10000m.

(((Bekele runs less miles than Viren but at their best, Bekele laps Viren quite easily. The explanation is found speed-side.)))

Has this idiot missed the whole Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Alex Rodgiguez, Mariion Jones, Ben Johnson thing of the last 30 yrs in sports.... The last group of althletes given a free pass on PEDs is the African distance runner for 3 reasons:

1. nobody cares about T&F as it has already been destroyed by druggies

2. Nike is the main sponsor of the sport. You don't mess with Nike.

3. exposing poor, indigent 3rd worlders supposedly reeks of raciism.