800m man 10.6 FAT out of blocks

deanouk wrote:

I don't know much about Curtis Beach, but from those stats he doesn't stand out as a top 800m man. It looks like he'd have more chance making it as a 400 runner. I thought the point is that we were looking at elite 800 men!?

Not really my point; my point is to compare a runner who's run times from 100-800 and using them to predict what someone like Rudisha would run, regardless of whether he's an 800 runner. I think given that he runs "only" 10.78 proves Rudisha wouldn't run that kind of time as some think he would.

This I am enjoying very much.

I will remain on the sidelines for now, but I direct attention to this earlier thread on Rudisha and the 100m:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4120166&page=0

Hey Rudy, if Mo can find one to run, you can too!

OK and now some female.

Jarmila Kratochvilova.

100m - 11.09

200m - 21.97

400m - 47.99

800m - 1:53.28

All of them are national records in the Czech Republic.

How does Beach prove anything about Rudisha? They're in very different events. Beach is a guy whose 800 is slowed not just by his sprint training, but also by his throws training. Drop the need to train for throwing and jumping and skill events, and Beach could run considerably faster over 800 without slowing in the 100.

' It can actually be seen on the link to the IAAF biography of him, here: -

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/poland/marcin-lewandowski

'

Cheers should have looked there

Being faster over 100m does not automatically mean you are faster over 800m, although you have to be pretty quick of course

Was just looking up Brian Wittle's 100m and found he won the Scottish Master V45 this year. In the high jump! With both shoes I assume

UK--

For a sprinter, being faster over 100m DOES automatically mean you are SLOWER over 800m.

Remember though that sprinters are still VERY different from middle distance runners--and yes, to me 800m falls squarely in middle distance.

mako wrote:

OK and now some female.

Jarmila Kratochvilova.

100m - 11.09

200m - 21.97

400m - 47.99

800m - 1:53.28

All of them are national records in the Czech Republic.

ummm...

Pardon my cynicism, but there are plenty of times for 19 year olds in Europe, with athletes running out of their events, that have measurements to the hundredths, but aren't necessarily FAT.

It should also be mentioned that Lewandowski won the national junior cross country title the same year that he ran 10.6

So he's not just a sprinter that moved up to the 800m.

azaleas wrote:

How does Beach prove anything about Rudisha?

I don't get what's so complicated about it. Beach barely breaks 11 (10.78 PR). He clearly trains harder for the 100 Rudisha. His 400 time is much closer to Rudisha than his 800 time, indicating that he's more of a sprinter than Rudisha. Therefore, Rudisha certainly cannot break 11.

Beach's 400m PR is ~3s off Rudisha. His 400/800 is very comparable to Rudisha's.

This would imply that Rudisha will run 100m proportionally faster than Beach. Likely Rudisha would have less technical ability in the sprints than Beach - but that means he'd probably be in the 10.7 range without specific training.

weakam--

LOL

What would Rudisha's 60m time be? FAT from the blocks, I mean.

Perhaps the better question would be to ask the posters making the sub-11 claims, what is THEIR 60m PB (FAT). Because if you haven't actually done it and don't understand the power requirements--and the amount of training effort required to get that acceleration power--you really don't have experience to comment.

Kerron Clement is a guy who ran XC in high school, and he won high school championships in 110h and 400h in the same years. Also keep in mind that Tommie Smith and John Carlos ran 10 milers in the fall--and it didn't kill their sprint performance.

100 and 800 is a different matter, because it involves stuff like:

3X4X200 (1 sec faster than 800 pace, rest 30-45 sec/1 lap walk) i.e., "Russian Intervals"

While you can do intensive tempo (80-90%) as a pure sprinter with adequate recovery without affecting sprint performance, when you do a bunch of the 800-type anaerobic stuff WITHOUT adequate recovery, you are really telling your nerve pumps, "I don't want you to generate maximum effort for a short period. I want you do generate sub-maximum effort for a longer period." And the CNS implications are probably greater than the metabolic implications. This is specific training for 800 (or 400/800 or 800/1500 Coe-style), and if you do this, you will be slower in an open 100 than you used to be (assuming you trained properly before).

I don't get what you guys fail to understand - the lewandowski example is an immediate counterexample to what you claim. You claim no elite 800 guys can run sub 11. This is a guy who did it.

It's over, you've lost the argument.

weakam--

lol

d--

People here don't seem to understand training specificity, and CNS training. Of course they don't generally NEED to understand it, but you would think that they could wrap their minds around something for which there is an infinite amount of evidence.

And I agree with you about the CNS implications probably being greater than the metabolic implications, but there certainly are some metabolic implications as well. But the CNS point is critical to this issue.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

weakam--

lol

Sprintgeezer, what is the "lol" for? That poster has shown a recorded example of a sub 11 sub 1:50 runner. What exactly do you disagree with?

EVEN ASSUMING THAT LEWANDOWSKI DID ACTUALLY RUN 10.64 FAT, LOL!

HAVE YOU NOT READ THE OTHER THREADS?

JUST BECAUSE PERSON A IS FASTER THAN PERSON B OVER 800M, DOES NOT MEAN THAT PERSON A WILL BE FASTER OVER THAN PERSON B OVER 100M.

-----------------------------------------------------

******PLUS, LEWANDOWSKI NEVER RAN 10.64 FAT*****

Look at these U20 men's meet results up to and including the 1500m:

Men

100 m

Race A 8 July Wind: -0.4

1 Jacek Roszko POL 8 Nov 87 10.57

2 Mateusz Pluta POL 17 Dec 87 10.60

3 Jakub Lewandowicz POL 22 Aug 87 10.64

4 Karol Kleina POL 16 Aug 87 10.79

5 Olaf Paruzel POL 14 Jul 88 10.82

6 Maciej Samborski POL 9 Mar 88 10.84

Race B 8 July Wind: 1.2

1 Jakub Prystrom POL 88 10.90 PB

3 Jakub Klima POL 87 11.00

Heats 8 July

Heat 1 Wind: 0.1

1 Karol Kleina POL 16 Aug 87 10.79

2 Jakub Klima POL 87 11.01

Heat 2 Wind: -1.4

1 Jacek Roszko POL 8 Nov 87 10.70

2 Krzysztof Tomaszewski POL 87 10.98

Heat 3 Wind: -0.3

1 Mateusz Pluta POL 17 Dec 87 10.58

2 Maciej Samborski POL 9 Mar 88 10.79

3 Mariusz Ignaś POL 87 10.82 PB

Heat 4 Wind: 1.3

1 Jakub Lewandowicz POL 22 Aug 87 10.60 PB

2 Olaf Paruzel POL 14 Jul 88 10.80

3 Robert Goluch POL 10 Jun 87 10.94 SB

200 m 9 July Wind: -0.2

1 Mateusz Pluta POL 17 Dec 87 21.35

2 Jakub Chrzanowski POL 88 21.61 PB

3 Maciej Samborski POL 9 Mar 88 21.73

4 Kryzsztof Słupkowski POL 8 Feb 87 21.84 PB

Heats 9 July

Heat 1 Wind: 0.4

1 Jakub Chrzanowski POL 88 21.82

2 Jakub Prystrom POL 88 22.05 PB

Heat 2 Wind: 1.5

1 Jakub Chrzanowski POL 88 21.93

Heat 3 Wind: -1.0

1 Kryzsztof Słupkowski POL 8 Feb 87 22.06

Heat 4 Wind: 0.9

1 Mateusz Pluta POL 17 Dec 87 21.51

400 m

Race A 9 July

1 Piotr Adamcewicz POL 30 May 87 47.76

2 Adam Burgiel POL 16 Apr 87 47.95

3 Grzegorz Sobiński POL 30 Dec 87 48.51

4 Daniel Sołodko POL 88 48.72 SB

6 Michał Świerczyński POL 87 48.94

7 Łukasz Domagała POL 13 Jan 87 49.15

Race B 9 July

1 Michał Wielgus POL 87 48.90 PB

Heats 8 July

Heat 1

1 Daniel Sołodko POL 88 48.93

2 Kamil Budziejewski POL 14 Sep 88 49.02 SB

Heat 2

1 Grzegorz Sobiński POL 30 Dec 87 48.74

2 Paweł Dubas POL 88 49.13

Heat 3

1 Krzysztof Tylkowski POL 25 Feb 88 47.95

2 Łukasz Domagała POL 13 Jan 87 48.24 SB

3 Michał Świerczyński POL 87 48.29 PB

4 Adam Wojciechowski POL 10 Apr 88 48.94 SB

Heat 4

1 Piotr Adamcewicz POL 30 May 87 48.04

2 Mateusz Gościniak POL 87 48.47 SB

3 Marek Hudziak POL 87 49.08 SB

Heat 5

1 Adam Burgiel POL 16 Apr 87 47.89

2 Michał Wielgus POL 87 48.68 PB

800 m

Race 1 9 July

1 Kamil Wyrzykowski POL 88 1:53.52 SB

2 Szymon Kamiński POL 88 1:53.86 PB

3 Mariusz Woźniak POL 88 1:53.91 PB

4 Grzegorz Sitek POL 88 1:54.08

Race 2 9 July

1 Marcin Lewandowski POL 13 Jun 87 1:50.37

2 Mariusz Gmerek POL 19 Jan 87 1:50.79

3 Michał Staniszewski POL 5 May 87 1:51.12 SB

4 Arkadiusz Mostrąg POL 4 Feb 88 1:51.49 SB

5 Marcin Stolc POL 14 Jul 88 1:52.16

7 Adam Czerwiński POL 2 Oct 88 1:52.76

8 Artur Ostrowski POL 10 Jul 88 1:53.28

9 Marcin Nikiel POL 23 Mar 87 1:53.46

10 Dariusz Frużyński POL 2 Jul 87 1:53.80

Przemysław Lidmann POL 16 Feb 87 DNF

Race 3 9 July

1 Piotr Tomczyk POL 87 1:52.35 PB

1500 m 8 July

1 Marcin Lewandowski POL 13 Jun 87 3:52.37

2 Artur Ostrowski POL 10 Jul 88 3:53.14

3 Arkadiusz Mostrąg POL 4 Feb 88 3:53.28 SB

Notice that Lewandowski is listed as having run the 800m and 1500m, but not the 100m, in which an athlete named Jakub Lewandowicz ran a 10.64 FAT--on the same day that Lewandowski ran his 1500m.

I'm not saying definitively that these are the correct meet results, but THE DATE, THE PLACE, THE TIME, AND THE WIND READING ARE THE SAME AS LISTED ON THE IAAF'S PROFILE FOR LEWANDOWSKI.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/poland/marcin-lewandowski

Meet results are taken from

http://www.tilastopaja.org/db/results.php?Season=2006&CID=9538099&user=5967

I take no credit for this, letsrun poster hattorihanzo was the first to find it, IIRC.

I have too much work to do to watch this thread for a while, but I can't wait to see the response.

Ah so the poster got the names mixed up? Well, OP what do you have to say about that?