800m man 10.6 FAT out of blocks

wrecker--

Like I said on the other thread, the Lewandowski argument has been extensively discussed already.

See, for instance, this thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4694207&page=6

And congrats on your HS times, they are totally believable.

Ah, I remember this guy. Obviously a faulty reading or someone else running under his name. There's absolutely no doubt that this was NOT his actual performance in the 100m.

The fact that he remains the lone anomaly and no one can find anyone even close to his attests to the suspicions me and sprint geezer feel.

Also, he COULD very well just be a freak with range like Ashton Eaton. But i doubt that.

body master - did you run in college? It isn't an anomaly.

You can't run 800m college without being around tons of guys who ran ~11.3 or so FAT in HS while training for 800/mile. I am talking about faster guys like 1:52-1:54 types who ran 48.x in hs.

Not many elite mid-d guys run sprint races as adults, or in races large enough to make the iaaf lists.

For example - I remember Russell Brown placed in the 55m at the state meet as a JR in HS. You're not gonna find that on the iaaf lists.

Nobody breaking 1:45 is not running at the VERY LEAST 11.5 FAT. That would be for someone like cram who is an extreme endurance mid-d type.

not good mid-d wrote:

body master - did you run in college? It isn't an anomaly.

You can't run 800m college without being around tons of guys who ran ~11.3 or so FAT in HS while training for 800/mile. I am talking about faster guys like 1:52-1:54 types who ran 48.x in hs.

Not many elite mid-d guys run sprint races as adults, or in races large enough to make the iaaf lists.

For example - I remember Russell Brown placed in the 55m at the state meet as a JR in HS. You're not gonna find that on the iaaf lists.

Nobody breaking 1:45 is not running at the VERY LEAST 11.5 FAT. That would be for someone like cram who is an extreme endurance mid-d type.

ok? You do realize the significant difference between an 11.3 and a 10.6 right? Almost a full second difference especially considering he supposedly ran that 10.6 into a headwind.

Russell Simmons making a high school 55m final is not impressive at all. Most high school runners are shi**y in the short distances and only shine during the latter stages of a race through speed endurance. Only in college and up will you find the good starters.

I think sprintgeezer already mentioned this, but you don't AUTOMATICALLY get faster simply because you're time in an 800m is faster than the other person. A 1:44 guy can still not be faster than a 1:48 guy.

That's absurd thinking to believe an aerobic event like the 800m can positively correlate to increased speed in an anaerobic event like the 100m.

I wouldn't doubt that almost any elite 800m runner could break 11.00 and that some could run significantly faster. We're talking about guys who can run 44 - 47 for 400m.

big difference between russell simmons and russell brown.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

wrecker--

Like I said on the other thread, the Lewandowski argument has been extensively discussed already.

See, for instance, this thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4694207&page=6

And congrats on your HS times, they are totally believable.

I don't see an extensive discussion of Lewandowski in that page of that thread...

not good mid-d wrote:

body master - did you run in college? It isn't an anomaly.

You can't run 800m college without being around tons of guys who ran ~11.3 or so FAT in HS while training for 800/mile. I am talking about faster guys like 1:52-1:54 types who ran 48.x in hs.

Not many elite mid-d guys run sprint races as adults, or in races large enough to make the iaaf lists.

For example - I remember Russell Brown placed in the 55m at the state meet as a JR in HS. You're not gonna find that on the iaaf lists.

Nobody breaking 1:45 is not running at the VERY LEAST 11.5 FAT. That would be for someone like cram who is an extreme endurance mid-d type.

Were YOU fast enough in college to actually know what you're talking about?

There just seem to be a bunch of people here who just HAVE to beleive that some mid/distance people are actually fast by sprinting standards. Let's face it--someone who can run 10.6 is fast enough to get a full ride in some places as a sprinter (maybe not TAMU, LSU, USC, but lesser schools), and that person is NOT going to be willing to be an 800 runner. Even 49-51 high school 400 guys don't want to be told that they have to move up to 800, because that means "distance runner" (read: non-athlete). Yes, I've been there, done that, and it's not a fun discussion to have.

Here's one of the best, for which marks are available and not open to debate:

Yuri Borzakovskiy

800: 1:42.47

400: 45.84

200: 22.56

He has FIVE outdoor medals...and hasn't got a shot in hell of breaking 11--with or without blocks.

Another of these was Eamonn Coughlan. He could kick 50 at the end of a 1500...but 25/50 was as fast as he could go ALL OUT.

People are distance runners because they are not fast....

AND

People are not fast because they are distance runners.

Borzakovskiy can run 200 and 400 at almost the same speed. This happens when people who don't have quite 100-400 sprint speed do a lot of fast intervals with short rest (8X200 with 30 sec for 800 people, 6-10 X 400 with 60 sec for 1500 people). When they do this, they acquire tremendous speed endurance, but it comes at a cost: They lose some of their pure sprint ability (different muscles hypertrophy, sodium/calcium pumps change output, and a fast twitch fiber connected to a slower nerve is a slower-twitch fiber). They gain the ability to go for 400 (or even more) at the same speed as 100m. But they can't go any faster, no matter what they do, and that's somewhat the effect of training.

This is also why coaches who know what they're doing don't want their athletes going anywhere near crossfit (ahem) "sprints."

Farah's 12.9 is not "bad" for a guy who can sub-27 for 10000. It is bad for runners who want to make believe that runners are "fast".

So tell us coach d

What's the fastest 100m time a 4:00 miler can run?

hey coach d - you betray your ignorance.

People are referencing an actual 800 guy who ran 10.6 FAT.

I ran in college with an 800 guy who was state champ in the 110h.

10.6 is a shitty time. You're NOT getting a scholarship to any of the schools you listed. You need to get a clue. You're just making me sad now.

10.6 is NOT fast by sprinting standards. That is just the kind of speed you have when running world class at 800m. The fact that you think it's a good time for 100m shows me that you're a hack who has never trained with real athletes.

10.6 FAT is not a shitty time by any standards. In fact, it's so good that the guys here who harbor a hatred for distance runners have to make up reasons it's not real.

10.6 put you at 186 in the NCAA last year, not great but hardly shitty.

not a fat old man wrote:

hey coach d - you betray your ignorance.

People are referencing an actual 800 guy who ran 10.6 FAT.

I ran in college with an 800 guy who was state champ in the 110h.

10.6 is a shitty time. You're NOT getting a scholarship to any of the schools you listed. You need to get a clue. You're just making me sad now.

10.6 is NOT fast by sprinting standards. That is just the kind of speed you have when running world class at 800m. The fact that you think it's a good time for 100m shows me that you're a hack who has never trained with real athletes.

lol! I imagine you can't even break 11 seconds. 10.6 is a time that gets full scholarships to lesser universities without outstanding sprint programs. As long as the 200m time correlates to it (21.4 etc) and they have competed in championship meets well.

I'm willing to bet Nick Symmonds can beat David Rudisha in the 100m. Why? Because it flat out looks like Rudisha specializes more in 800m running then Nick. Nick's body still has quite a bit of muscle mass to it that probably, if shed, would help him become a faster 800m runner. Rudisa has muscle, but not muscle mass. Muscle mass is required to sustain speeds in a sprint event.

coach d wrote:

Here's one of the best, for which marks are available and not open to debate:

Yuri Borzakovskiy

800: 1:42.47

400: 45.84

200: 22.56

He has FIVE outdoor medals...and hasn't got a shot in hell of breaking 11--with or without blocks.

Obviously, when YB ran under 46 he was capable of running under 22.

At the 1976 Olympic games, not only did Alberto Juantorena win the 800 in a WR 1:43.50 and the 400 in a low-altitude WR of 44.26, but in anchoring the Cuban 4 x 400 team he ran the 1st 200 of his leg in very close to 20-flat.

not a fat old man wrote:

hey coach d - you betray your ignorance.

not a fat old man wrote:

That is just the kind of speed you have when running world class at 800m.

Um...

WHO is ignorant?

Rudisha, the WORLD RECORD HOLDER in the event and clearly a 400-800 guy, not an 800-1500 guy, wouldn't dip under 11 if he had raced the 100 all September.

Could he if he trained for it? Probably? But his best 800 the same week would be 1:44.

Running one 400 in the beginning of the season to get your wheels turning doesn't make you a 400 800 guy. He's an 800 meter specialist, who has enough speed to have potential in the 400. Maybe he couldn't run sub 11, but I bet he could run sub 22.

[/quote]

Can't see his 100m time here

The other poster saying all class 800m runners can break 11 secs where is your evidence

ukathleticscoach wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcin_Lewandowski

Can't see his 100m time here

The other poster saying all class 800m runners can break 11 secs where is your evidence[/quote]

It's not actually there, though it may have been in the past. It can actually be seen on the link to the IAAF biography of him, here: -

Apparently it was into a 0.4 wind in July 2006 at a place called Slupsk, which I guess is in Poland. He would have been 19 at the time, with an 800m pb that year of 1:46.69, although he did run 1500 at the previous year's European Junior Champs, where he finished 7th!

It does seem a bit of an anomaly, and strangely he doesn't have a 400m pb time. If he did, it might be able to assess whether or not that 100m time is credible. I would think a 19 year old who can run 10.6 and 1:46, should be able to run under 46 flat for an open 400.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

coach d wrote:

Here's one of the best, for which marks are available and not open to debate:

Yuri Borzakovskiy

800: 1:42.47

400: 45.84

200: 22.56

He has FIVE outdoor medals...and hasn't got a shot in hell of breaking 11--with or without blocks.

Obviously, when YB ran under 46 he was capable of running under 22.

At the 1976 Olympic games, not only did Alberto Juantorena win the 800 in a WR 1:43.50 and the 400 in a low-altitude WR of 44.26, but in anchoring the Cuban 4 x 400 team he ran the 1st 200 of his leg in very close to 20-flat.

Yes, I would think that Borsakovskiy was capable of sub 22 from the blocks in a 200m at his peak. Especially if you consider his 400 ability was about the same as Coe's, and he had a 200 pb in training of 21.7, though I would think that would have been from a standing start rather than blocks.

If you look at this 400 relay leg by Coe,

,

he goes through the start stumbling and almost standing. His leg was 45.6 and he went through the first 100m in c. 11.0 and 300m in c. 33.2, so I'd guess he must have hit the 200m mark (not directly in view on the recording, in about 22 flat.

I read somewhere on here last year that Coe had run an 11.0 from standing start (possibly blocks, though not sure if it had been in late 70's? I think the compulsory use of blocks came into force in 1980, but perhaps sprintgeezer can tell us for sure) for his Uni Loughborough in an early season match where he would have turned out at various distances. It may possibly have been on a cinder track, and I have no idea whether or not it was a hand time of FAT.

Again, I hadn't heard of this claim before reading it on here and don't know how true it is. However, from what he did in 400 relays, I would suspect that he could have run an 11.0 from blocks at his peak. But considering he was capable of sub 46 for 400 and the then 800 WR holder, I doubt most top class 800 men could do that. Of course the likes of Juantorena, Rudisha, etc who have great 400 speed should break 11 flat, but I think the likes of Symmonds would be nearer to 11.5.

I would be very surprised if any of the top 50 800 guys of all time could record 10.6 from blocks off their 800 peak ability. Possibly Juantorena.

Another guy with good times from 100 up to 800 is Curtis Beach:

800m: 1:47.75 (did he run 1:46 once?)

400m: 46.90

100m: 10.78

All run in similar shape.

He's almost 7 seconds behind Rudisha in the 800, and only 1.4 seconds behind in the 400m. Thus, I would expect him to beat him over 200-100m. Then, consider that he spends significant time training for explosiveness and I expect him to dominate Rudisha over 100m. Hence, Rudisha certainly does not break 11.