Armstrong doping drama proves that Bolt is likely not doping...

yikes!!! wrote:

You are soooo completely naive.

Have you ever read anything said by Victor Conte? Ever?

Conte himself said that it was easy-peasy to create new, undetectable steroids like 'the Clear'. He said that any chemist worth their salt could create brand new compounds quite easily. He's also publicly said that he thinks the Jamaicans have taken his theories and practices, and improved on them.

Do you HONESTLY think that drug testing catches all the cheaters? Really?

I've got a bridge for sale, if you're interested. e

So the Jamaican scientists, have taken an American invention and improved upon it, thereby beating them and the whole world at their game? Poor Victor Conte and the American athletes can't keep up because their stuff is inferior.

Tell us how much you paid for that bridge you're selling.

Meanwhile... In other news, it has been discovered that the Jamaicans have been developing weapons grade uranium in the slowpoke nuclear reactor located at the University of the West Indies.

'Jones was using the then invisible designer drug called "The Clear". Do you think they're developing invisible designer drugs down in Jamaica or have access to designer drugs down there not available to other athletes internationally?'

Why would he have to use a drug made in Jamaica?

WTF?

Oh, I see, you think that poor black Jamaicans don't know shit about PEDs. Ah. Yeah. So why are friggin' Morrocans doping? Algerians? Belorussians? What could those backwards nations know, right?

Did I suggest that we weren't doping? No, I was not suggesting that.

Conte basically said they've hit on a good doping schedule, and they're probably not in a hurry to share their successes with anyone.

As for Americans being behind the doping curve, I think Americans are a little more shy (a little) about doping, because we actually get tested year-round.

We don't get a free pass on testing like the Jamaicans.

The idea that Jamaicans are too dumb to dope says a lot more about your negative view of Jamaicans, than MY negative view.

You are so naive. I DO still have that bridge for sale, if you're interested. Seriously cheap. You seem like a good candidate.

Unlike you, I didn't say anything negative about the Jamaicans (and you continue to do so). I simply contradicted your ridiculous point. On the contrary, the seem to be quite intelligent.

But wait, it seems that you are the gift that keeps giving. Another winner..."Americans a little shy about doping?" Riddle me this... mirror mirror on the wall, who is the greatest American sprinter of them all?

(Hint: He came third in the Olympic 100m and is a convicted doper caught multiple times)

Keep the bridge, no one wants it.

yikes!!! wrote:

Oh, I see, you think that poor black Jamaicans don't know shit about PEDs. Ah. Yeah. So why are friggin' Morrocans doping? Algerians? Belorussians? What could those backwards nations know, right?

See, this is the type of hypocrisy you get on letsrun. In one fell swoop, this idiot insults three countries and tries to implicate me. There have been many threads putting down blacks as intellectually inferior which I have railed against and I have a sneaking suspicion that he'd be one those I'd be arguing with. When it suits their point, people like this will flip the script and accuse blacks of having superior technology when it's something underhanded.

You DO realize that Victor Conte, and BALCO, were not funded by the might of the US government, right? We didn't invest a billion dollars to design PEDs.

BALCO was Conte's company. You don't need some super know-how to run a company that supplies PEDs. It doesn't require massive state sponsorship.

The US didn't give Marion Jones money to buy drugs - she did it on her own.

Thus shooting down this theory that small countries don't have the resources to dope effectively.

Bridge is still for sale. I KNOW you're gonna bite on it soon.

You've got some serious issues with logic, and you're the one insulting poor black people. I think Jamaicans are plenty smart and capable of doping as well as 'we' do - you seem to think they're incapable of it. Why do you think they're incapable of doping like us?

IF your point is that Jamaica is too small and poor to dope, then you're insulting Jamaicans. Simple. You're the one who thinks them incapable of doping as well as 'we' do.

When you wake up to your closet racism, let me know.

yikes!!! wrote:

SoSo wrote:

Jones was using the then invisible designer drug called "The Clear". Do you think they're developing invisible designer drugs down in Jamaica or have access to designer drugs down there not available to other athletes internationally? I'm saying I'd feel comfortable betting money that Bolt is not doping.

You are soooo completely naive.

Have you ever read anything said by Victor Conte? Ever?

Conte himself said that it was easy-peasy to create new, undetectable steroids like 'the Clear'. He said that any chemist worth their salt could create brand new compounds quite easily. He's also publicly said that he thinks the Jamaicans have taken his theories and practices, and improved on them.

Do you HONESTLY think that drug testing catches all the cheaters? Really?

I've got a bridge for sale, if you're interested. The Brooklyn Bridge. And I'm selling it CHEAP, just for you.

Cool send me your email and we can start the negotiations.

We don't know for sure that Bolt is Jamaican, have anybody ever seen his birt certificate? Dude runs like Rudisha, he's probably a Kenyan who was kicked out of the country as a child because he didn't want to run more than 200 meters on his way to school every day...

yikes!!! wrote:

You've got some serious issues with logic, and you're the one insulting poor black people. I think Jamaicans are plenty smart and capable of doping as well as 'we' do - you seem to think they're incapable of it. Why do you think they're incapable of doping like us?

IF your point is that Jamaica is too small and poor to dope, then you're insulting Jamaicans. Simple. You're the one who thinks them incapable of doping as well as 'we' do.

When you wake up to your closet racism, let me know.

Stop offering the bridge for sale. How can you sell the roof over your head, Troll?

Any Jamaican will agree with me that their country cannot outdope the USA. You accuse Jamaica of state-sponsored doping of it's athletes, then you post this? LOL

What IS state-sponsored in Jamaica are it's schools and the sport of T&F. That is what produced Bolt, Blake and others. Jamaica didn't suddenly become good at T&F, they naturally rose to the top once the USA was forced to stop the rampant doping/cheating. If anything, they should be thanked for saving T&F rather than idiots like you accusing their govt. of handing out the dope.

SoSo wrote:

Armstrong had almost unlimited resources to develop an elaborate scheme and access to officials and doctors to aid him in doping to the gills while maintaining a "clean" record. Why then do people think that Bolt from a small island in the Caribbean with limited resources is sophisticated enough to carry out a systemic doping program and evade detection. I really think Bolt is a natural talent and what you see on the track is just what it is. A 6 foot 5 guy with the leg turnover of a 5' 11 guy but with the added advantage of a longer...much longer stride length.

You can be rich in a small island... As for a systematic dopping system, thats not possible. With the amount of testing Bolt does the only way to get away with it is to either be on something unknown, or for WADA to cover up for, which is more unlikely.

If the Jamaicans really have developed new super drugs, then imagine where the US and GB must be in their own drug development program.

It doesn't HAVE to be state sponsored. The only thing that needs to be state sponsored is the lack of off-season testing.

Imagine this: Jamaican sprinter "X" goes to a Victor Conte-type of PED supplier. No Jamaican T&F officials need be involved.

Then Sprinter "X" starts blowing people's doors off.

Then Sprinter "X"'s buddies say, "Hey, X, how'd you get so fast?"

Sprinter X says, "Shhh, guys, keep it quiet, but there's this doctor I know, and he's got me on a great PED schedule that's as undetectable as the stuff Conte was peddling to Marion Jones, mon."

So Sprinter X's buddies, all Jamaican national team members (keep it in the family to keep the 'wrong' people from finding out), decide to jump on Sprinter X's drug regimen.

There. That's how it can (easily) be done. That's probably how most US athletes get into it as well.

Explain TO ME how a country of 3 million comes to dominate an area of T&F in today's world of advanced training tech.

The US has over 30 million African-Americans.

So we should produce 10 good sprinters for every 1 good Jamaican sprinter. Assume HALF of ours quit and play basketball or football - we should still be producing 5 good sprinters for every one of theirs.

Do the math.

And, oh yeah, they're all crushing WRs left and right.

I have nothing against Jamaicans. I'm sure they're wonderful people living in a tropical sh*thole.

Would Bolt be the fastest man alive if everyone were clean? Sure, why not. I'm not even disputing that. But the numbers tell us there is an AS YET UNKNOWN REASON behind this fantastic, spectacular, unbelievable string of successes the past decade. It's not just some wild coincidence.

Why doesn't everyone assume that its the country themselves that do the doping and not the athlete's coach that is funding the systematic doping?

Why do people compare leg turn-over of different heights? It doesn't matter what a 5'11" guys turnover is, declaring Tyson Gay's leg turnover as the baseline standard for all sprinters the same height is asinine.

Michael Phelp's legs are not the same length as Usian Bolt.

USADA attacked Lance Armstrong, not WADA, not UCI, only the US's anti-doping agency and rather than prove Lance was doped, they just declared he admitted it which isn't really a trial or providing proof at all.

Doping is widespread

No clean athlete competes on level with dirty athletes

yikes!!! wrote:

Explain TO ME how a country of 3 million comes to dominate an area of T&F in today's world of advanced training tech.

Simply blaming PEDs does explain Jamaican domination of the sprints. Even if they are on PEDs, so is the rest of the world. So what makes them better? There must be other factors that cause them to dominate. They are a country of 3 million that take T&F seriously, unlike the rest of the world. I'd say their training tech is a world beater.

SoSo wrote:

Armstrong had almost unlimited resources to develop an elaborate scheme and access to officials and doctors to aid him in doping to the gills while maintaining a "clean" record. Why then do people think that Bolt from a small island in the Caribbean with limited resources is sophisticated enough to carry out a systemic doping program and evade detection. I really think Bolt is a natural talent and what you see on the track is just what it is. A 6 foot 5 guy with the leg turnover of a 5' 11 guy but with the added advantage of a longer...much longer stride length.

Never really looked into this topic have you?

Let's not be naive...never say never. Who knows, I mean if Blake was caught cheating one time and Bolt trains with him or in the same camp... do you not have an ounce of doubt? Or question it? After all, nothing is an absolute. I have no doubt Bolt has talent but what's to say he wanted an 'extra edge' to secure a placement/medal? I'm sure he was not alone in his decision if he did. Just pure speculation.

The drug Blake got caught for was a simple stimulant that so many people got banned for. It is EXTREMELY common in REGULAR supplements like preworkouts before weight lifting and focus supplements.

Blake used MUSCLESPEED, a simple training supplement with Beta Alanine and creatine and geranium extract (what he got banned for... a simple ingredient to focus better but too similiar to banned stimulants)

All this bullshit about him being a drug cheat is ridiculous. I will vouch for Yohan Blake any day over Usain Bolt even after his 19.26 and again even after his 9.69 into a headwind.

He has heart. He works extremely hard unlike Bolt and the fact that he got banned for taking MUSCLESPEED actually proves that he is serious about training and taking legal supplements to improve his work output. It's not his fault that MUSCLESPEED said they were banned substance free and they in fact weren't.

How about that? Did you know that MUSCLESPEED claimed they were Banned Substance Free and many athletes failed a test because of them. In order to avoid a lawsuit they quickly removed the offending ingredient. Do your research people.

Tyson Gay has no training partner (a serious detriment) and his coaches- to be quite frank- suck. They know nothing about technique because if they did Tyson's start would be leagues better than it is now. He has been running the same way since 2005, with the same sluggish start. (Even Veronica Campbell has terrible technique)

Yohan Blake has improved tremendously in his technique on the other hand.

yikes!!! wrote:

Explain TO ME how a country of 3 million comes to dominate an area of T&F in today's world of advanced training tech.

The US has over 30 million African-Americans.

So we should produce 10 good sprinters for every 1 good Jamaican sprinter. Assume HALF of ours quit and play basketball or football - we should still be producing 5 good sprinters for every one of theirs.

Now factor in the amount of kids that actually try track and your down to 1 or 2. Then split up the distance kids and see what your left with.

yikes!!! wrote:

And, oh yeah, they're all crushing WRs left and right.

What records? I've only seen 3, 100/200/4x100

They only really have 3 amazing sprinters right now, Blake, Bolt, and Shelly Ann (excluding hurdlers). People seem to be exaggerating Jamaica, as if they set a WR in every track event...