AK IS PISSED AT KENYA'S DOPING ALLEGATIONS

WADA has an office in South Africa that come and test the athletes every 2 weeks. Kenyans are the most tested athletes in athletics, reason being they participate in large numbers and cover 800m to the marathon, most major championships the athletes gets tested.

Kenyanna wrote:

For more than four decades now, westerners have been trying to figure out why this young, poor East African country, which has no business defeating the bigger, richer nations (which are the only ones that matter, really).

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT KENYA IS SUCCESSFUL AT DISTANCE RUNNING SIMPLY BECAUSE OF DOPING.

But don't let that stop you ignoring all points anyone is making and keep on posting this repetitious trash about how Kenyan people are just better people than awful westerners.

LOL, that was good Kenyanna

Runthedistance wrote:

WADA has an office in South Africa that come and test the athletes every 2 weeks. Kenyans are the most tested athletes in athletics, reason being they participate in large numbers and cover 800m to the marathon, most major championships the athletes gets tested.

In 2010 - the latest figures the IAAF have on the site - they only did 14 out of competition blood tests anywhere in the world (that tested for banned substances - they did 140 that tested blood parameters).

Even if all 14 of these were in Kenya (clearly not), it doesn't seem like they're under much threat of detection to me. I would say that you'd feel very hard done by if you got caught out.

You are saying, we need to admit we are not clean as we say we are and this will make you happy. WE ARE 99% CLEAN. Take the 1% and cuddle with it.

Trollism

All you have posted is the usual flawed logic

1. The fact that EPO can be easily obtained in Kenya still does not prove that there is mass doping in Kenya. Talk about warped logic. You still haven’t provided proof. Marijuana is legal in some countries like the Netherlands. Is there mass use of marijuana in Holland ?

2. It is laughable for you to suggest that because almost no Kenyan has been banned for missing a test then it must be easy to skip tests. That is simply more flawed logic . Perhaps its because Kenyans do appear for tests as scheduled.

3. Your post in #4 above is absurd, and lame. The notion that all country has cheaters therefore there must be mass doping in Kenya is preposterous. Some countries clearly dope more than others. Some countries have systematic doping. In the US there is a tradition of hiding positive drug tests and justifying the use of PEDs. In Russia the runners are very adept at beating drug tests. In Eastern Europe, doping has been systematic and official government policy. No such thing exists in Kenya.

No one has ever come up with cogent proof of mass doping in Kenya. All we have is allegations with supposed proof that amounts to comedy.

As I have said before , some Kenyans have indeed doped. But to suggest mass doping as this German joker did is without basis.

Again I ask WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT DOPING IS RIFE IN KENYA as this german joker is alleging. All I hear from trollism is that EPO is easily purchased in Kenya therefore doping must be rife in Kenya --> nonsense

Runthedistance wrote:

You are saying, we need to admit we are not clean as we say we are and this will make you happy. WE ARE 99% CLEAN. Take the 1% and cuddle with it.

I'll settle for 10%-15% of all international (i.e. winning cash at big marathon sort of level) Kenyan athletes are on something. I think that's more realistic. Possibly even a large underestimation.

I'm be very surprised if it was less than this.

You seem to have the opinion that there's not mass doping happening in Kenya and it seems a pretty strong opinion. I doubt that you'll get a "convincing" argument because you're already convinced of the opposite viewpoint.

That said, I don't think anyone is claiming "mass doping" in Kenya. Most of the "negative" comments seem to point out that drugs like EPO are available in Kenya which must mean that someone is using them. Do you have a convincing argument as to why it's unreasonable to consider the possibility that some of those someones aren't distance runners aside from the usual claims that Kenyans are somehow less susceptible to that sort of temptation than other humans are?

Has any kenyan ever been busted for EPO use ? If EPO use was rife in Kenya as the german claims, many would have been busted by now. There are literally dozens of world class runners appearing in Kenya each year. Most arent sophisticated enough to be able to hide EPO use from drug testers. Even Lance Amstrong was very adept at hiding EPO use but he was eventually busted.

Also, most kenyan runners are too poor to be buying EPO and also buying the masking agents needed to buy EPO. None of this makes sense.

All this points to the fact that if there was mass EPO use in Kenya then we should be having plenty more positive tests

stop jalousie wrote:

No such thing exists in Kenya.

You know this how?

This can work both ways you know?

You don't know all the athletes and all the 'Renatos' do you? So how do you know what they're doing?

My opinion that there is a significant doping problem in Kenya is no less valid than your assertion that Kenyans don't dope simply because they're Kenyan.

Even if the opportunity to dope is far higher in Kenya than it is say in the UK. I.e. Easy to get hold of and zero testing.

1% is on the higher end, I was being too generous but you seem to be greedy. Lol, Kenyans should slow down in races and let these poor souls win once.

stop jalousie wrote:

Has any kenyan ever been busted for EPO use ? If EPO use was rife in Kenya as the german claims, many would have been busted by now. There are literally dozens of world class runners appearing in Kenya each year. Most arent sophisticated enough to be able to hide EPO use from drug testers. Even Lance Amstrong was very adept at hiding EPO use but he was eventually busted.

Also, most kenyan runners are too poor to be buying EPO and also buying the masking agents needed to buy EPO. None of this makes sense.

All this points to the fact that if there was mass EPO use in Kenya then we should be having plenty more positive tests

What testing? The IAAF did 14 blood tests worldwide in 2010. Why would they need masking agents? They're not steroids. The actual EPO is out of the system in a matter of hours.

In competition testing in irrelevant. They know when they're going to be and can be completely clean by then - not just Kenyans, that's the way of the world.

Poor Kenyans is who can't afford it is irrelevant. They've all got a 'Renato' making $$$ out of them to deal with that sort of thing.

I'll settle for 10%-15% of all international (i.e. winning cash at big marathon sort of level) Kenyan athletes are on something. I think that's more realistic. Possibly even a large underestimation.

I'm be very surprised if it was less than this.

Thats just speculation on your part. While hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, anyone can make any claim. Try that in a court of law and the judge will hang you to dry.

Which makes my point : NO one has yet provided a cogent intelligent argument that supports their claims.

I was hoping to hear intelligent arguments like proof of abnormal progression, or past instances of systematic doping in Kenya or sudden spikes in performance or any of the other aspects typical of countries that have mass doping as this german claims.

Runthedistance wrote:

1% is on the higher end, I was being too generous but you seem to be greedy. Lol, Kenyans should slow down in races and let these poor souls win once.

It's your opinion pal, and you're allowed to have it. No matter how badly informed or naive it is.

Just allow me to have mine.

What about the high school and primary shool kids that dominate all the kids in the world? they take EPO too?

stop jalousie wrote:

Thats just speculation on your part. While hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, anyone can make any claim. Try that in a court of law and the judge will hang you to dry.

Which makes my point : NO one has yet provided a cogent intelligent argument that supports their claims.

I was hoping to hear intelligent arguments like proof of abnormal progression, or past instances of systematic doping in Kenya or sudden spikes in performance or any of the other aspects typical of countries that have mass doping as this german claims.

The fact that you think that zero Kenyans dope is purely speculation on your part - as has been pointed out to you on this thread a number of times.

But somehow, in your clearly not fully functioning brain, this is somehow different.

Especially given your reasoning is that 'Kenyans don't dope'.

Trollism

Your allegations against Renato Canova are baseless and without proof as usual.

If as you say all countries are doping therefore kenyans must be doping then this whole debate is mute and we should stop it. The report from the german joker is absurd because all the world dopes. This should put all countries on equal footing and end this debate.

If your claim that 15% of Kenyans are on dope is true, then considering that dope is more easily available in the US and Europe then possibly 50% of Americans and Euroopeans are on dope. So no one should be opening threads to discuss Kenya specifically.

stop jalousie wrote:

Trollism

Your allegations against Renato Canova are baseless and without proof as usual.

If as you say all countries are doping therefore kenyans must be doping then this whole debate is mute and we should stop it. The report from the german joker is absurd because all the world dopes. This should put all countries on equal footing and end this debate.

If your claim that 15% of Kenyans are on dope is true, then considering that dope is more easily available in the US and Europe then possibly 50% of Americans and Euroopeans are on dope. So no one should be opening threads to discuss Kenya specifically.

Where to start on this nonsense.

There weren't any allegations against Canova. I was just using him as an example of a European agent/doctor/coach who uses Kenyan athletes for financial gain. I didn't actually suggest he was doping athletes, just that people like him did.

I do put all countries on equal footing. It's you guys that are suggesting that Kenya is somehow above doping. They have the majority of world's top distance runners, so therefore they're likely to have the majority of the world's top doping distance runners. Simple.

I can't walk into a pharmacy in London and buy EPO, but you can in Kenya. How does this make EPO easier to get hold of in Europe than in Kenya? Doesn't really make sense, does it?

Wake me up when a top Kenyan runner is busted for using EPO, as of now, you are speculating, alleging and blowing hot air. You have all types of exusses, oh, IAAF don;t test Kenyans enough, oh, Kenyans have EPO, Oh Ranato could be doing something. If I am accusing somebody of doing something, I got to have more proof than than.

Runthedistance wrote:

US leads the world in reported crimes, does it mean all Americans are criminals?

Just want to point out that Kenya's homicide rate is higher than the US because reported crimes doesn't seem like a fair assessment. I do not think there's a high correlation with murder rate and doping in sports, but thought I'd share anyways