Randy Oldman wrote:
pollencounter wrote:Wow. What a weak human being.
Depression isn't a choice, its an illness.
is everything a biological condition? Why can't we say "being a murderer isn't a choice--it's an illness" and let everyone off the hook?
Shorter Than Frank wrote:
http://thespartanrunner.blogspot.com/2011/06/1966-california-state-championships.html
Very cool race video.
Tragic in this context.
dose boros wrote:
is everything a biological condition? Why can't we say "being a murderer isn't a choice--it's an illness" and let everyone off the hook?
depression is a documented biologican condition...a disease
how you deal with it...aka not killing people...is absolutely a choice (everything about danielson remain alleged at this point however)
tim danielson is the 3rd one in that pic?
Tim was a two time state mile champion in California.
The video of the state mile run was extremely good. Several people got some great high-quality video closeups and someone got them all together to mash up an excellent video of the race.
The trouble is that our court system is not very kind when it comes to mental illness as a factor in criminal acts. I'm not trying to say what happened isn't terrible. But prosecutors tend to make sure the jurors selected for these kinds of cases don't have much knowledge of mental illness.
to be not guilty due to insanity is almost impossible to show jurors, even in cases where it's blatantly obvious.
is this where the death penalty debate comes in or should we move over to the ObL thread to do this?
why didnt he just get a ride to the finish?
okay just listen wrote:
is this where the death penalty debate comes in or should we move over to the ObL thread to do this?
Dog Damn it! This sucks!
okay just listen wrote:
is this where the death penalty debate comes in or should we move over to the ObL thread to do this?
no. sorry. we can keep it as is. im just saying of course prosecutors want black and white minded individuals
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
You are correct for the most part, but you don't believe there is any "gray area" in there when discussing the mental illness of depression? Is there an exact test one can run that comes back positive or negative? Is it similar to say, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) ?
Anyway, the extremely weird timing of this of course is, as others pointed out, LV's recent sub 4. This put this Danielson's guy back in the news. I wonder if this brought on his severe depression over what might have been? Really strange that just two days ago I was telling a family member: ' now LV joins Ryun, Liquori, Webb, and........some guy who never did anything. ' And the other person said: "Tim Danielson?" (I didn't expect him to know the name). And I said"bingo. Weird that he never did anything much after that. But the other 3 guys of course became superstars."
Bizarre, bizzare, bizarre. Haven't even thought of the guys name for a long while, and then gets in the news (due to LV), and then it REALLY is in the news.
no i do believe there is a gray area at that there is a point at which mental illness should be (and is) an affirmative defense...however in most documented cases of depression there is no significant impairment of the ability to tell right from wrong, particularly in the context of murder, so the connotation of saying Danielson did this because he was simply depressed does not trigger much sympathy
that said, we know absolutely nothing about Danielson, his health, or his recent life, and should wait for real facts before condemning or sympathizing with anyone but the affected families and friends
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
Anyway, the extremely weird timing of this of course is, as others pointed out, LV's recent sub 4. This put this Danielson's guy back in the news. I wonder if this brought on his severe depression over what might have been? Really strange that just two days ago I was telling a family member: ' now LV joins Ryun, Liquori, Webb, and........some guy who never did anything. ' And the other person said: "Tim Danielson?" (I didn't expect him to know the name). And I said"bingo. Weird that he never did anything much after that. But the other 3 guys of course became superstars."
Bizarre, bizzare, bizarre. Haven't even thought of the guys name for a long while, and then gets in the news (due to LV), and then it REALLY is in the news.
You must have a truly warped perspective on reality. To say that Danielson "never did anything," is really symptomatic of your running geek attitude. What the hell do you mean he never did anything? There is a lot more to life than running and it is about time you figured that out.
Danielson was no slouch! Putting it in perspective regionally, Danielson's sub four mile has survived a whole stable of distance runners from San Diego County. And he was...
CIFSDS Hall of Champions/Media Athlete of the Year
1966 - Doyle Steele, San Diego and Tim Danielson, Chula Vista
San Diego County Individual Event Champion
1965 - Tim Danielson, Chula Vista High school. 4:09.9
1966 - Tim Danielson, Chula Vista High school. 4:06.2
C.I.F State Champion
1600 meter Run
1965 - Tim Danielson, Chula Vista High school 4:08.4y
1966 - Tim Danielson, Chula Vista High school 4:07.0y
CIFSDS Track & Field Meet Record
1966 - 1600 Meter Run Tim Danielson, Chula Vista 4:04.6*
Although Tim's record mile (3:59.4) was run in 1966, at Balboa Stadium the same track Ryun set his 3:55.3. Still number 3, surviving Verzbicas.
A previous poster made the remark 'some guy who never did anything.'? Interesting statement. I looked at the Chula Vista High school website and could not believe that Danielson wasn't even inducted to their Hall of Fame. Sheeesh. My impression the guy ran with some heart and soul and wasn't out for the fame. Who could blame him. Running to fullfill the Nations obligation could be an awful stigma. Despite that I could say that Danielson inspired a lot of San Diego distance runners from the 1965 - 1975 era. When I was younger I made the trek (somebody mentioned this on letsrun too) to Balboa stadium and Chula Vista high. Wow.
Not only that but look at the past record holders standouts over the last 75 years who performed well Nationally in high school. I think that all school records should be displayed on a schools website and their records prodly displayed by the track. It gives the young and upcoming something to strive for - inspires. Same for some community colleges. At one community college (very famous for its Distance running program) there a board where the track & field records were displayed - where did it go? I get mad when I see one that it is either withered away or rendered to a dusty back storage lot. Shame on these school administrators!
I can't but help, maybe making, a mid night trek to the Silver Strand State Beach (one of Danielson's favorite runs) and having a good jog cry. Sad times we live in.
He's like 60+ years old.
When older people do this I think its more of a control thing more than anything else.
When middle aged people do it, its actually depression manifested.
When younger people do it, its actual very serious mental disturbance/imbalance.
The reason may be more domestic/age related than anything else.
LetsRun.com has learned that Tim Danielson, the second US high school sub-4 minute miler in history, is in the hospital after being involved in a murder/botched-suicide late Sunday night or early Monday morning.
Daneilson's wife is dead but Danielson is alive and in a hospital.
While running for Chula Vista High School,Daneilson became the second high school 4-minute miler when he ran a 3:59.4 mile at San Diego's Balboa Stadium on June 11, 1966.
More info on the tragic developments of Sunday night/Monday morning can be found below:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jun/13/sheriffs-investigating-possible-murder-attempted-s/
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-san-diego/lakeside-man-uses-portable-generator-to-kill-himself
No, you don't have to say this.
RIP, very sad and tragic.
Maybe we'll learn someday why this happened, as opposed to all you dolts speculating and saying awful things.
Stating the obvious wrote:
No, you don't have to say this.
RIP, very sad and tragic.
Maybe we'll learn someday why this happened, as opposed to all you dolts speculating and saying awful things.
I agree. I'm appalled by many of the comments on this thread.
Brings back memories of Barry Brown's passing. Tragic.