well. wrote:
If El Guerroj had done a few more serious attemps at the 3000, he might have broken 7,20.
Emphasis on the word might.
well. wrote:
If El Guerroj had done a few more serious attemps at the 3000, he might have broken 7,20.
Emphasis on the word might.
The Ethiopians had no response that day.
well. wrote:
If El Guerroj had done a few more serious attemps at the 3000, he might have broken 7,20.
That El Guerrouj didn't take more serious attempts at it might indicate he didn't think he could do it.
he commited suicide by putting in a 2'25 middle km that day
one of the worst planned races i have ever seen
So its settled then, a healthy Webb would have broken the 3000 world record.
well. wrote:
If El Guerroj had done a few more serious attemps at the 3000, he might have broken 7,20.
I don't see it. El Guerrouj needed to be a 12:40 guy before you could say that. He wasn't.
malmo wrote:
well. wrote:If El Guerroj had done a few more serious attemps at the 3000, he might have broken 7,20.
I don't see it. El Guerrouj needed to be a 12:40 guy before you could say that. He wasn't.
Malmo, I agree with you that ElG was unlikely to break Komen's record. However, I think if he'd been able to run 12:45 and maintain his 3:26 1500 fitness, the advantage he'd then have over Komen at 1500 would offset a slight endurance edge for Komen to the point where they'd perhaps be on a par at 3000. Of course, this was not the reality of the situation, as far as we know, so it is all just conjecture. Moreover, this talk of Webb breaking the 3000 record is so laughable when better candidates than he have not come very close to it...
Chet. My point is so simple it's too complicated for the Letsrun mindset. There is only one 3:29/12:39 human being to ever walk the planet, and he is Daniel Komen. Coincidentally he dominates the 3000/2 mile all time lists.
You don't think being a 3:26 guy and a 12:50 guy (with very few attempts) says El G was equipped to run 7:20?
OK "breaking" 7:20 is a bit tougher than bettering 7:20.67.
Komen, the only sub 3:30/ sub 12:50 guy was still more than 3 seconds slower than El G over 1500m.
And don't forget El G's 4:44 for 2000m which is a better indicator of 3000m speed than a 5000m time would be.
It's still not clear but I think with more opportunities El G could have made up that 2.5 s difference in 3K PR.
Komen had 9 races at 7:31 or better and that 7:20 was his 4th attempt at the record that year.
El G only had two fast attempts in his career and they were four years apart.
malmo wrote:
Chet. My point is so simple it's too complicated for the Letsrun mindset. There is only one 3:29/12:39 human being to ever walk the planet, and he is Daniel Komen. Coincidentally he dominates the 3000/2 mile all time lists.
I guess that El G must have thought 'I have not run 12:40 for 5000 metres and therefore I cannot run 7:20 for 3000'. Thank god the 12:40 rule exists.
frog woman wrote:
I guess that El G must have thought 'I have not run 12:40 for 5000 metres and therefore I cannot run 7:20 for 3000'. Thank god the 12:40 rule exists.
What rule? it's a simple observation. Find someone who has broken 3:30/12:40 and that is the person capable of breaking Komens 7:20.
Does it bother you that the only person to run sub 3:30/12:40 is the only person to break 8:00 for two miles (twice) and also the indoor and outdoor record at 3000m.
Why ever would it bother me, dear boy?
toro wrote:
You don't think being a 3:26 guy and a 12:50 guy (with very few attempts) says El G was equipped to run 7:20?
OK "breaking" 7:20 is a bit tougher than bettering 7:20.67.
Komen, the only sub 3:30/ sub 12:50 guy was still more than 3 seconds slower than El G over 1500m.
No I don't. 12:50 and 12:39 are worlds apart.
Ask yourself this question: are people who are good at 3000m, do they tend to be better at 1500m or 5000m?
Like the two events Hicham won at the 2004 Olympics? Hmmf... not sure.
malmo wrote:
toro wrote:You don't think being a 3:26 guy and a 12:50 guy (with very few attempts) says El G was equipped to run 7:20?
OK "breaking" 7:20 is a bit tougher than bettering 7:20.67.
Komen, the only sub 3:30/ sub 12:50 guy was still more than 3 seconds slower than El G over 1500m.
No I don't. 12:50 and 12:39 are worlds apart.
Ask yourself this question: are people who are good at 3000m, do they tend to be better at 1500m or 5000m?
El G ran 12:50 in the twighlight of his career. I don't even think Bekele or Gebreselassie could run 12:50 or better at age 28, so I don't think El G's 12:50 is the best indicator for what his potential for a 5000m is. His best 1500m in 2003 was 3:28, his slowest since 1997 (an unbelievable thing to imagine- 3:27.xx or better in '98, '99, '00, '01, '02, '04).
El G was an amazing athlete.
for komenesque :
3'30/12'40 ->7'20.8
3'30/12'39 ->7'20.4
3'30/12'38 ->7'20.1
3'30/12'37 ->7'19.7
3'29/12'40 ->7'19.9
3'29/12'39 ->7'19.6
3'29/12'38 ->7'19.2
for hichamesque :
3'26/12'50 ->7'20.8
3'26/12'49 ->7'20.5
3'26/12'48 ->7'20.1
3'26/12'47 ->7'19.8
3'25.5/12'50 ->7'20.4
3'25.5/12'49 ->7'20.1
3'25.5/12'48 ->7'19.7
3'25.5/12'47 ->7'19.4
interesting thing is that 5k seems fractionally more important to 3k than the 1500
5k is 3.33 distance of 1500
the 3k is roughly in between 1500 & 5k, but which does it rely on more ?
if we try an example ( guy like saidi-sief calibre ) :
3'30/12'50 ->7'24.18
now improve 1500 by 1s ->
3'29/12'50 ->7'23.33
an improvement of 0.85s
in comparison, improve 5k by 3.33s
3'30/12'46.67 ->7'23.03
an improvement of 1.15s
so, if you want to improve your 3k, you are slightly better off in improving your 5k compared to similar amount over 1500
GUH wrote:
El G ran 12:50 in the twighlight of his career. I don't even think Bekele or Gebreselassie could run 12:50 or better at age 28
Geb was well into his 30s when he set the old 5000m indoor record of 12:50.
frog woman wrote:
Like the two events Hicham won at the 2004 Olympics? Hmmf... not sure.
It doesn't get him to 7:20.
Good night Malmo, have a nice one.
No doubt in my mind El G could've have gotten 7:20 if it were a distance that actually mattered.