Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 2/13

Pittsburgh Joe wrote:

Just lurking for sec. Funny stories and great running, guys! Today I ran 2mi and delivered three babies. Whoosh.

Hey, you're catching footballs better than the Steelers did!

And thanks for all the inspiring posts in the thread, all. I'd been reading the thread for quite a while before jumping in, and it's been hugely useful.

NoleRunner - I can't help but take responsibility for the idoiotic pacing...I said I wanted anywhere from 5:10-5:20 pace and I was way off. The pace felt fast, but I chalked it up to still having marathon legs and no speed. No doubt you would've at least broken 33, and probably been around 32:30 if you had run 5:10-15 the first few miles.

Another - Nice bounce back week after the stomach bug. When you say "Boston simulation" over 14 miles, are you referring to the last 14 miles of the course or are you crunching the full 26 into that simulation?

Silky - Learning how your body recovers from hard efforts, whether it be 5k, half, or full marathon...is sometimes best learned through a trial by fire.

Abu - Funny about trying to catch a stray dog on your run. A similar thing happened to me a few years ago. My buddies and I had just finished up our long run, it was in the middle of summer and we were dead tired stretching/laying on the driveway. A few minutes later, a woman comes by and asks us to help her find her dog. Long story short, we ended up running another 5ish miles on top of our 17 mile long run...but it was fun, felt like we were actually using running to our advantage. Sucks about your 4 mile race, just chalk it up to a solid workout and move on.

4TM - That's an awesome week, especially considering you "only" had 6 miles on Monday. You sound pretty beat up dude, though one thing I've learned is that you constantly have these "issues" and continually run well despite them...very admirable. BTW, one of my training partners is coming up from Orlando to run the NYC half, he's run a 1:08:04, and shooting for 1:07 low up there.

brumrunner - Excellent XC 10k! Especially considering it was at the back end of a huge mileage week.

stamford - I've never actually trained specifically for a half marathon, so I don't have any "key" workouts per se, but there's a few that I really like to do leading up to a half. A good mix of speed and endurance...

Ladder workout, something like 400, 800, 1200, mile, 12, 800, 400. All segments somewhere around 10k pace (maybe slightly faster) and with half distance recoveries.

12x400 w/ 400 jog recovery around 5k pace.

But my favorite "indicator" workout is a simple 4-5 mile tempo at HMP. The key for me is not get faster each time I do this, but to make that pace each time feel easier and easier.

blaznbison - Holy sh!t...you probably had close to 15 flat in you judging from those splits....I can't imagine running sub 4:40 in the last mile of a 5k. You're looking very strong.

Pittsburgh Joe is back!

You, sir, need to learn to respect the marathon.

Loads of inspirational training as ever.

Have just returned from vacation so haven't been on the thread for the last 3 and a bit weeks.

Just for the record training has looked as follows:

Wk ending - 23/01

M - 7M, 7:45m/m

T - 10M, 7:45m/m

W - 12M, 7:14m/m (progression from 8:20-6:36m/m)

T - 8M, 7:39m/m

F - 9M, 7:21m/m (progression 7:45-6:32m/m)

S - rest, travelling

S - 15M, 7:26m/m

Total: 61M

Wk ending - 30/01

M - 10M, 7:45m/m

T - 10M, 7:34m/m

W - 13M, 7:30m/m

T - rest, travelling

F - 12M, 6:38m/m

S - 8M, 7:27m/m

S - 18M, 7:17m/m

Total: 71M

Wk ending - 06/02

M - 10M, 8:30m/m (rough, off-road)

T - 7M, 7:34m/m

W - 11M, 7:01m/m (bit of progression)

T - 12M, 7:46m/m

F - rest

S - rest

S - 14M, 6:49m/m (progression in middle 8M down to ~6m/m)

Total: 54M

Wk ending - 13/02

M - 10M, 7:31m/m

T - 10M, 7:34m/m

W - rest, travelling

T - 11M, 7:41m/m (8M progression in middle 6:50 down to 5:45m/m)

F - 12M, 6:52m/m

S - 10M, 7:01m/m

S - 18M, 7:48m/m (middle 15M 7:14m/m)

Total: 71M

Pace of Thurs and Sun run during last week was somewhat skewed by as a result of 1300ft altitude gain in first 1.25M - it's seriously steep running up to "The Peak" in Hong Kong!

Overall quite happy with how the post injury training has gone. Last 10 weeks mileage has looked as follows - 10, 15, 20, 35, 44, 55, 61, 71, 54 (step-back), 71. Looking to level-off around 80 mpw and add some quality in. Hope to be back to racing in March.

Goal Race: Boston

Goal Time: 2:30

M - 8 easy

T - 4 easy AM 8 easy PM

W - 4 easy AM 8 moderate w/ fartlek PM

T - 4 easy AM 8 easy PM

F - 4 easy AM 8 easy PM

S - 8 recovery

S - 16 easy to moderate

Total: 80 miles

Just a note on my training that I don't think I've shared on here before, I do Badger miles and I assume all running is done at 8 min/mile pace. This saves me from worrying about pace and focusing only on effort for a given day. It has been great for my running, I used to run too fast for most runs because I cared about pace too much, now my run takes the same time no matter how fast I do it so those recovery/easy days are good to do nice and slow.

Great running again everyone!

pablo - Haha no worries man. The quick pace did hurt me, but I'm a big boy and should have done a better job finding the mile marks and listening to my body.

I did get really discouraged when you guys left me tho.. I was thinking "how the hell can I not hold 5:20s." little did I know..

blaznbison24 - Thanks dude. And I will echo pablo... HOLY SHIT! That last mile shows that you can run MUCH faster. Keep it going.

4TM - Very nice week. Can't wait to see some of your structured workout.

brumrunner - Nice K workout. You're really starting to look fit.

stamford - 4:20 mile!! Smokin fast. Congrats dude. Also, listen to pablo.. he's knows his shit. haha

Pablo - What I do on the TM is I ran the first 8.3 miles @ -3% elevation gain speeding the TM up to 7:03/mile. Then I go into the Newton Hills with that. Running the hills @ 7:03 and the flats (0%) at 7:24. Then the last 0.5 miles is again at -3% @ 6:58/mile.

The hills go like this:

0.7 @ 3%

1.0 @ 0%

0.3 @ 6%

1.4 @ 0%

0.4 @ 4%

0.6 @ 0%

0.4 @ 6%

0.4 @ 0%

0.5 @ -3%

The hills above are bigger than the Boston hills. I just used max grade instead of average grade. HB Hill is more like 90-95ft versus 127ft above...

blaznbison: That is right along the lines in what I was thinking in terms of structuring each week. Hopefully I can get back on a track soon for some of the faster workouts so I will know the distance as opposed to always running for 45", 60", etc. Also that last mile of the 5k is really impressive.

pablo: I will probably include some or all of these workouts. The tempos I think will be more important since I have the speed right now, and have done some ~5k pacing in the past 6-8 weeks. I've done little to no steady state running besides a few progression runs.

Thanks guys!

Another, have you done that TM Boston sim before? If so, you obviously think it was valuable. Thoughts? Seems hard... but I guess Boston is hard! Would be a really solid workout at MP. Is -3% negative 3? Your treadmill allows downhill simulation?

4TM wrote:

Another, have you done that TM Boston sim before? If so, you obviously think it was valuable. Thoughts? Seems hard... but I guess Boston is hard! Would be a really solid workout at MP. Is -3% negative 3? Your treadmill allows downhill simulation?

Is it valuable? I think its good to do, but I don't really concentrate on hill work for Boston. It just offers some variety on the mill. I'll try to get in hill work for a couple more weeks then I'll cut it off. I think I did more hilly runs last year and the hills went fine, but I didn't do that much for '09 and I didn't think the hills were all that.

I have the PaceMaster Platinum Pro VR that goes -3% incline. It is amazing how much faster you can run at the incline, especially on the TM.

Oh and that stomach virus really did wonders for my weight (plus the 94 miles last week). Down to 157.4 this morning. From a high of 172.4 1st of December. Now I don't have to worry about the weight stuff anymore. In 2 weeks I've lost 7.6 lbs.

Oh and I'm so happy that its so warm today and that tomorrow for my 11 with 5LT it will be 35mph winds and windchills near 10F. Might do that one on the TM again.

Pablo and Nole, thanks for your kind words.

Marmite, sounds like you're training well

As always, nothing but quality! The mileage is really looking more solid than I've noticed in the past. I haven't done this before so I can't compare, but the average of 20 posters this week (not including mine) is 81 miles!! That is very solid! My lifetime high is only 75 and 20 guys are averaging 80+ right now! Keep it up y'all -seeing the work done by others helps keep each of us (excuse me as I speak for everyone) motivated and rolling on the days where we don't feel that great.

Goal Race: Indy Mini - 5/8; Chicago ? - 10/9

Goal Time: ? have to wait and see how I progress post injury

M - 8 (7:22)

T - 5 (7:21)

W - 8 (7:21)

T - 6 (7:15)

F - 6 (7:12)

S - 12 (6:51 - 7:34 down to 5:55)

S - 5 (7:29)

Week - 50

YTD - 147

First week to run every day and hit 50 miles since mid-November. Also - Sat was 1st run over 10 since then. Felt fine. Hope to repeat & up mileage each week...

Goal: 2:26

Sun - 5miles easy

Mon - 2mile warmup, 7xmile 5:21, 5:18, 5:18, 5:18, 5:18, 5:14, 5:10, half mile jog recovery 3:40, 1mile cooldown (13miles)

Tues - 9mile easy

Wed - 12miles 6:44 pace

Thur - 4miles easy morning, 2mile warmup 9mile tempo 49:21 (17:04, 16:27, 15:48) 1 mile cooldown evening, (16miles)

Fri - 5miles easy morning, 7miles easy evening

Sat - 15miles 1:43:20

Total - 82 miles

This was an ok week, not great but not bad. My mile repeats felt a little rough even though I took a major recovery day on Sunday. My tempo run on thrusday was good it was more of a progression run I started off at 5:47 first mile and my last couple were around 5:12 pace. It felt very smooth and comfortable. I am only 6 weeks in on training since my injury. I am racing a 20k on Saturday at goal marathon pace around 5:34-5:36 so we'll see how that goes.

Goodjob to everyone this past week it looks like everyone is getting race ready.

Goal Boston

M : 60 min

T : 50 min

W : 60 min + strides

Th: 3 x 10.5 mins w/ 2 min rest. (15min wm / 15min cd)

F : 60 min

S : 16 x 55 sec on / 35 sec off (15min wm / 15min cd)

SU : 65 min easy / 60 ~ MP / 15 min easy

~ 75 miles

Would have like to have done more milage. End of the week was better then the start.

4TM - awsome week.

Goal Race: Boston

Goal Time: 2:48

This week was a back off week, which was good because I felt like I needed it! No doubles this week and quality runs were minimal.

M: AM: 8 EZ, felt terrible from yesterday's long run in the snow; PM: 60 min stretch/core routine

T: AM: 6 Treadmill EZ

W: AM: 8 Treadmill w/ 6 x 100 @ 5:30/mi; PM: 60 min stretch/core routine

T: AM: 8 Treadmill EZ

F: AM: 3 x 2 mi @ 6:10 pace, very cold out, terrible workout

S: AM: 4 EZ; PM: 60 min stretch/core routine

S: AM: 14 EZ, tired but got'er done.

Total: 62 miles

Back to it this week. A couple more big cycles with mileage getting into the 90's. Then showtime.

Goal: Gold Coast Marathon 2:35 July

Conditions: Much nicer, up to 90 degrees but only 80% humidity

M - am 4 (8:17) / pm 11 (7:54)

T - am 13 (7:20) w 4 @ (6:10-7:10) / pm 5 (7:51)

W - am 5 (7:53) - / pm 11 (7:54)

T - am 13 (7:15) w strides and fartlec

F - am 6 (9:13) / pm 5 (8:22)

S - am 8 (7:53) with 5k (19:50) / pm 4 (8:50)

S - am 20 w 5k (18:50)

Total: 106

YTD: 665

The 5k's on Sat and Sun were with a blind runner I guide. Saturdays course was a particularly technical cross country course, to keep him on the good path I was jumping shrubs running through bushes and through soft sand and Sundays course was better on paths but too many turns for a fast time. I will be taking him down to Canberra Marathon in April where he hopes to run 2:55, not bad for someone who can't see a thing.

My legs were tired for some reason towards the end of the week so I just ran comfortably. Next Sunday I am going to do a 5k myself. I did the race last year 17:20, its the only 5k race I've ever done. Will be interesting considering no speed work since Nov.

People's training seems to be going great, you can have the ice though! The only danger I have with ice here in Oz is choking on a cube in my scotch and dry. Have also noticed a few school teachers on the thread, me included.

Have a great week!

marmite - Great to see you posting weeks again, you're definitely going about it the right way with the slow and steady building. Any races in particular you have in mind for the near future?

oz - That's so neat to be a guide for a blind runner. I assume you'll be running his marathon in April more as a training run? BTW, if don't break 17 at your 5k, I'll be shocked. With a goal marathon of 2:35, you should even be able to muster a 16:30...even off no speedwork.

rhrunner - Thats really a good way about running your mileage, although I should note that I'm pretty sure "Badger miles" are miles based off 7:00, not 8:00. You may actually be closer to 100 miles last week.

hillcat - Excellent week! Which marathon are you running?

Pablo - I am running the NAIA national marathon the end of May. I have never done a marathon before, in fact I have only done one Half-Marathon in my past so this will be an interesting experience for me.

hillcat - I have a couple friends still in college who are running the NAIA marathon this year. I'm guessing they'll have a similar goal as yours, but we'll see how that plays out since they're focusing on indoors right now.

Also, I have a question for anyone who's run Boston in the past. I didn't qualify (I'm running for a charity) and I emailed them letting them know what my planned marathon pace will be. They said they cannot place me with qualified runners since I haven't qualified, so I emailed them back with my 3:26 marathon from October (I "trained" for 3 weeks after taking 2 years off and blew up at 18...ran a 63:00 last 10k) and it looks like they might at least place me in the back of the first wave. How long will it take me to cross the line and will I be able to run my normal pace or will I have to wait a few miles?