Paying for police services will hurt roadrunning

New York City Marathon was originally held in Central Park, where it was four loops plus two miles or so. They already pay a good deal of money to the city, but the key really is that the marathon brings in far more to the city than it costs and so this would be pretty darn counterproductive. It reminds me of a lot of different policy decisions being made right now in government where they try to save relatively small amounts of money (being unwilling to take on the big cases or to raise taxes even on the wealthy) by cutting funds to programs with enormous long term impacts like funding of basic research (from which we got lasers, the Internet, the computer chip, and so forth) and infrastructure (railroads, the Interstate Highway system, and so forth).

Not possible. Likewise you can't use non-uniformed volunteers for traffic control. Civilians can't just block off roads or arbitrarily block traffic from using roads.

Cops are civilians too and are under the US Constitution. They don't use military police at the marathon.

Other marathons have a a few real cops, many secirity guards, with the bulk of the work done by rent-a-cops, retirees, and volunteers.

New York Marathon already uses retired high school coaches, retired firemen, and retired cops, for most of the media, web, photography, videography, stats, and operations functions. So they already know how to manage droves of volunteers.

Rent-A-Cops set up barricades and block roads at PF Changs, Carlsbad, Bolder Boulder, LA Marathon, San Jose 1/2, etc. You can ask the Guardian Angels, ROTC, Police Explorers, Fire Explorers then make a contribution to their charity for a lot less. I guess you can't ask for political reasons, the Boy Scouts, and religious based organizations.

Rent A Cops wrote:

Cops are civilians too and are under the US Constitution. They don't use military police at the marathon.

Other marathons have a a few real cops, many secirity guards, with the bulk of the work done by rent-a-cops, retirees, and volunteers.

New York Marathon already uses retired high school coaches, retired firemen, and retired cops, for most of the media, web, photography, videography, stats, and operations functions. So they already know how to manage droves of volunteers.

Mostly incorrect. Police, sheriff deputies, etc, are sworn officers. They have the authority to deal with traffic, block roads, etc. Rent-a-cops, retirees, volunteers, man water stations, secure start/finish areas, and manage participants, etc. Volunteers direct runners, police direct traffic, and woe to the race director that gets that mixed up.

Real cops or other sworn officers (highway patrol, etc) are needed because the general public isn't required to follow orders given by some blue hair in a reflective vest. The number you will need to hire is normally given to you during the permitting process, or in many cases before that process starts. You don't have the option to use volunteers or rent-a-cops. If you try, you won't get your permit.

Today that concept is expanding to parks and trails where many municipalities are expecting permitting (and fees) for organized events off-road. Here in Winston-Salem we pay to use major parks for organized events and there's a per-participant fee for the trail system. Wake Forest and WSSU require hiring of campus police for events along with extra liability insurance.

Locally the costs aren't prohibitive but certainly add about 15-20% to the race fees. Regionally however several cities have jacked up the costs to the point they've either intentionally driven events out of town (Greensboro) or unintentionally done it because they think every race is a Race for the Cure that gets 10,000 people.

As for The New York City Marathon I couldn't help doing a little math on the rejected registrants:

75,000 runners were rejected in the lottery last year.

75,000 x 11 = Gross of $825,000 for saying no.

Let's pretend it costs them 400,000 to say no. I doubt it does!

That means over $400,000 dollars for NYRR to be a bunch of thugs.

They paid the police $107,000 last year. How much of an increase can the police make to really have an impact on NYRR? It's a drop in the bucket. But NYRR is going to make a big deal out of it as an excuse to raise entry fees.

Let's say they pass the bill on to the runners next year and the police and other services amount to 200,000 extra. Then that would mean and increase assuming there are 45,000 runners of around $4.50. Does anyone really belive that they are only going to raise fees that much? It sound to me like they are making a ploy to tackk an extra $20 on.

They have every right to do so, but they shouldn't blame the cops for it.

If you have a permit, Rent A Cops, volunteers, explorers, high school teachers, etc. can set up barricades and block roads for far cheaper the prices. No need to pay the Sanitation union, Fire union, and Police union wages. The race director has to work with the City Council to get around the Mafia who put in stupid work rules against the public. Every marathon already uses hundreds and some thousands of volunteers at every job including the marathon director position.

Rent A Cops wrote:

If you have a permit, Rent A Cops, volunteers, explorers, high school teachers, etc. can set up barricades and block roads for far cheaper the prices. No need to pay the Sanitation union, Fire union, and Police union wages. The race director has to work with the City Council to get around the Mafia who put in stupid work rules against the public. Every marathon already uses hundreds and some thousands of volunteers at every job including the marathon director position.

No they can't. Of course you won't listen to this, but you must have sworn public safety officers if you're going to obstruct public streets. You absolutely can't have a high school teacher do that.

If you drive up to an intersection and a police office directs you down an alternate route, you must, by law, follow his orders. You don't have to follow a high school teacher's orders.

Also, who do you want on the course during a medical emergency? A trained LEO or a 75 year old retired bloke?

I've set up barricades for an ethnic group fun run through a huge big city downtown area and I'm not a cop. I've directed traffic and had cars towed. In America every citizen has the same authority as others including the police. America is not pre-1860s Japan with a Samurai Class. I've seen regular people do the same at SF Bay-2-Breakers, Cal Intl Marathon, PF Changs, Suzuki San Diego, etc.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have some kind of fee but it needs to be charged in an even-handed way to every kind of parade or assembly and to the Mets and the Yankees, etc.

Also, when you consider the level of public subsidy using tax money, tax exemptions, or various public resources for things like Yankee Stadium or Citi Field, which just puts money into the pockets of private owners, it seems pretty crappy to gouge the NYRR, which is a charitable organization that tries to use its funds to benefit the public.

Funny. I thought New York City people were SOOOO tough. With Guidos/Guidettes, John Gotti, Irish Boxers and Cops, FDNY/NYFD/NYPD tough guys lambasting the Ground Zero Mosque, Peter King hating on Muslims, the whole nine yards... But you tough Ney York City guys can't run a marathon without the police doing a the man's work ? What happened to to New York tough guy image you like to portray on us ?

Rent A Cops wrote:

I've set up barricades for an ethnic group fun run through a huge big city downtown area and I'm not a cop. I've directed traffic and had cars towed. In America every citizen has the same authority as others including the police. America is not pre-1860s Japan with a Samurai Class. I've seen regular people do the same at SF Bay-2-Breakers, Cal Intl Marathon, PF Changs, Suzuki San Diego, etc.

BS. What race did you set up barricades at? Please provide a link to the race's website and/or the race director's name. I'd be very interested in learning what permits he secured that allowed him to block off public streets without a police presence.

Contact any marathon director, race director, Thanksgiving Day fun run, etc. and they will tell you the same thing. Cities don't have money for mickey mouse events. Barricades at Carlsbad, etc. are set up at 4AM by volunteer crews and manned by volunteers. Sure, there are cops patrolling around in case a serious crime is committed. But there are 100 times more volunteers and Rent A Cops guarding the course at Bolder Boulder etc. There's no way we can have road races without volunteers for affordable prices w/o charging Ragnar Relays prices.

Rent A Cops wrote:

Contact any marathon director, race director, Thanksgiving Day fun run, etc. and they will tell you the same thing. Cities don't have money for mickey mouse events. Barricades at Carlsbad, etc. are set up at 4AM by volunteer crews and manned by volunteers. Sure, there are cops patrolling around in case a serious crime is committed. But there are 100 times more volunteers and Rent A Cops guarding the course at Bolder Boulder etc. There's no way we can have road races without volunteers for affordable prices w/o charging Ragnar Relays prices.

More BS. You're talking to a race director at the moment, and I talk to others all the time. People that aren't sworn officers don't have the same authority. Period.

BTW, who do you think supplies the barricades? The police traffic squad. The volunteers are manning the barricades the police said it was OK to man.

No doubt we could never have road races without volunteers, but on that same note you can't have a road race without police either.

You are no director of anything. You are a NY city union sponge. Just go to the city yard and pick up the cones then bring then back afterwards. If your city is so effing bad then you have 'men' who can handle it. Then give runners are break on the price.