Switcheroo wrote:
You and eurodonkey were saying the EXACT same thing. You just saw the word "geezers", got all upset, then didn't read the rest of the sentence.
Huh? I think we're just both trying to help out the original poster. I don't see any evidence of anyone getting upset. Old Brit geezers who hung around tracks tend to have pretty thick skin.
J.O. wrote:
eurodonkey, I ran my fastest 1500 and 10 at 43 (one week apart) and my fastest 800 at 45 (and a fast 5000 2 hours later, which Tim Grose our UK stats compiler doesn't believe) and my fastest 3000 at 45 also.
That's impressive. Sadly I am just aiming to slightly beat my old age grades. No way I'll get near my youthful times from 800 to 5000 - maybe at sprints and marathons.
So aren't there any official results from the meeting? Or was it too long ago to dig out evidence and witnesses?
Thanks eurodonkey et al. I've started to get my striders in again - I'd planned on it anyway but I needed some inspiration and you guys helped me find it. Much appreciated.
If anyone has more input on this topic I'm willing to read more!
J.O you said by racing faster?
But can you provide us with any studies showing us how a group of runners improved their racing times after adding strides to their training regimen? I have yet to see a runner claim that strides was the one ingredient in their training that led to his/her improvement in racing times.... Have you? have any other coaches seen it before?
I think in the process of doing hard running training your core should already be getting into excellent shape. I've never noticed any kind of difference from doing core work.
Strides probably aren't a big deal either, but there's no harm in working them into your schedule.
no way wrote:
J.O. wrote:Strides/striders (same thing) are fast repeats at a pace somewhat less than flat out. Start at perhaps 70 meters at a moderately fast pace and as soon as you get your breathing back to normal do another slightly longer and faster. Keep doing this until you are running fast but easy and relaxed.
You have to practice to get the feel.
The reason you are a slow runner is because you run slowly. To be fast you have to practice running fast. It ain't rocket science.
Thank you for the explanation. How many of these per run? Is 70 meters less than 1/4 of a track?
But do you think that some people honestly just do NOT have the ability to run much faster? I have run for probably 15 years, currently coming back from an injury but this is unusual. Mostly I've been healthy/injury free. I built up to 50-70 mpw Pftizinger plan before marathon and still fell apart. My race times increased, but not as much as I would have hoped/thought. This was a 6 month plan. Basically I gave up speed after the effort--which was about 5 years ago. Since then I just run for fun, no racing, maybe 40 mpw. Aren't some people just not capable of running at a speed that is competitive with their age group peers?? I mean, I have won awards, but the fastest women just blew me away, and I imagine on far less mileage. Like there are local women who run 18-19 min 5Ks. My PR was 22:30 . . . 10K before marathon predicted maybe 1 min faster 5K would have been possible, marathon was a disaster for reasons unrelated to training (3:46) and again this was 5 years ago, of course I would be slower now but imagine with same training I could achieve comparable race times for my current age group. I would have given anything to run faster, would do any type of training, and generally don't think many people are more passionate at my age about the sport...I'm just slow...
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Sorry, I missed this post yesterday. No, I don't believe that you are genetically slow. We are all slow without speed work. Yes, some people will have differently functioning biomechanics due to their genetics or an illness, but that doesn't apply to healthy people like yourself.
eurodonkey wrote:
J.O. wrote:eurodonkey, I ran my fastest 1500 and 10 at 43 (one week apart) and my fastest 800 at 45 (and a fast 5000 2 hours later, which Tim Grose our UK stats compiler doesn't believe) and my fastest 3000 at 45 also.
That's impressive. Sadly I am just aiming to slightly beat my old age grades. No way I'll get near my youthful times from 800 to 5000 - maybe at sprints and marathons.
So aren't there any official results from the meeting? Or was it too long ago to dig out evidence and witnesses?
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He got the results of the meeting, but it seems he didn't believe that I could run a PB in the 800 and a fast 5000 2 hours later. I didn't send him an email, because I'm flattered, not offended.
Years of Coaching wrote:
J.O you said by racing faster?
But can you provide us with any studies showing us how a group of runners improved their racing times after adding strides to their training regimen? I have yet to see a runner claim that strides was the one ingredient in their training that led to his/her improvement in racing times.... Have you? have any other coaches seen it before?
It's just another form of interval training. Don't overthink it, or underthink it.
J.O. wrote:
Sorry, I missed this post yesterday. No, I don't believe that you are genetically slow. We are all slow without speed work. Yes, some people will have differently functioning biomechanics due to their genetics or an illness, but that doesn't apply to healthy people like yourself.
Thanks for the reply. I just found it hard to believe that local women running faster were running more miles. I honestly don't think they were. But I believe they were doing more speedwork. When other women seem to effortlessly run 18-19 min 5Ks . . . with fewer miles plus speedwork. Hard to believe that I would be that much faster with speedwork since I was logging the miles. And I did one 6 month program that included speedwork (tempos, track, long run at certain pace, etc), like I said I was faster but not award-winning faster . . . does speedwork continue increasing your potential maximum pace over the years? Like had I done another 6 month program, would I have then been faster, and then again for another 6 months, even faster, etc.? Basically, how are these women doing it? Have they been doing speedwork for years? Seems like they are just able to do it with very little effort.
To run faster you need a more powerful stride. You don't get that just from mileage, which is really more about endurance. Combine endurance training with the faster work and, if you get it right you can keep improving for a long time despite getting older.
Of course, how much fat you are carrying has a big impact on your pace also.
J.O. wrote:
To run faster you need a more powerful stride. You don't get that just from mileage, which is really more about endurance. Combine endurance training with the faster work and, if you get it right you can keep improving for a long time despite getting older.
Of course, how much fat you are carrying has a big impact on your pace also.
I am 5'4", 122 pds, much of that from leg muscle. I don't think body fat is my problem, although I would like to lose maybe 7 pds just to become ultra-lean, carry less weight while running. I would be underweight for sure 7 pounds lighter, maybe in an unflattering way.
Anyway, thanks again! This really helps b/c my husband and I have had a LOOONNNNGGG running debate about genetics v. training. He firmly believes that running speed is mostly genetic. Those kinds of thoughts get into your brain and affect what you attempt. So I was just kind of wondering if all people, regardless of their genetics, tend to improve significantly with speedwork, since I was never on a team and haven't done much speedwork.
lala, there's a simple formula:
1) do race pace efforts twice a week:
a) 5k goal race pace for 1M repeats or shorter, reducing the rest from 2 minutes to below 1 minute as you get in better shape.
b) 10k to marathon goal pace for 2M (two or three repeats with a half mile jog) to 10M
c) long run not to exceed a quarter of weekly mileage
d) frequent strides, easing into them
e) doubles to increase mileage per week
f) run with faster people
Thanks jjjj.So, how long would you do this before you would conclude that you weren't probably going to run much faster? I know that I will never stop running, but how long before you have maxed out the ability to really get significantly faster?I basically did what you described for 6 months about 5 years ago.I agree on the running with faster people...helps a lot but hard to find!Thanks again!!
jjjjjjj wrote:
lala, there's a simple formula:
1) do race pace efforts twice a week:
a) 5k goal race pace for 1M repeats or shorter, reducing the rest from 2 minutes to below 1 minute as you get in better shape.
b) 10k to marathon goal pace for 2M (two or three repeats with a half mile jog) to 10M
c) long run not to exceed a quarter of weekly mileage
d) frequent strides, easing into them
e) doubles to increase mileage per week
f) run with faster people
no way wrote:
does speedwork continue increasing your potential maximum pace over the years? Like had I done another 6 month program, would I have then been faster, and then again for another 6 months, even faster, etc.?
yup, that is called progression. It is why people get better over time, not run their fastest race their first time out.