"Ryan Hall, the finest American-born marathoner in history"

I'm sorry, but I had a hard time understanding all that gibberish.

First, you are telling me that I can't argue opinion on something that is factual. Well, what you are doing is arguing fact on something that is purely opinion. Opinion has nothing to do with fact. It can't be "wrong". If you don't understand this, then you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion. If I told you the world was flat, it wouldn't be an opinion. It would be an assertion of a fact. It would be false, but I'm talking about opinion as in "It's a really nice day." I can't be simply wrong because there are no facts involved. Saying Ryan Hall is the "finest" marathoner has nothing to do with facts, it's just an opinion that the Brojos seem to hold. Good for them, I say.

Secondly, I don't get what scale you are using to determine that one time in the past is better than another time in the present. If you are making a factual argument, then you're going to have to do better than that. True, just because someone is faster doesn't mean they are better, but the opposite is also true, and it depends on some convoluted definitions.

So, basically, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. It is their opinion, so it is their opinion. That is all that needs to be said. They can't be wrong because it is their opinion. Get it?

sebby wrote:

By the way, what is wrong with the original poster giving his opinion? Why are you defending the Brojos opinion and then flaming the OP for his opinion?

I am not flaming anyone. The OP is flaming the Brojos for their opinion and I am saying it is their right to believe that and it shouldn't matter to anyone else what they think.

I don't know if he's the finest but he's definitely among the stupidest.

And what I wrote was gibberish? Do you even read what you write?

someone else wrote:

sebby wrote:

By the way, what is wrong with the original poster giving his opinion? Why are you defending the Brojos opinion and then flaming the OP for his opinion?

I am not flaming anyone. The OP is flaming the Brojos for their opinion and I am saying it is their right to believe that and it shouldn't matter to anyone else what they think.

No, he was stating his OPINION that he does not believe Ryan Hall is the finest American Born marathoner. Do you get it. Read his post again.

Yes, we understand you like Ryan Hall. I like Ryan Hall as well. He is not the finest American born marathoner; not even close. Get over it.

beerintervals wrote:

Ryan Hall is significantly faster than Viktor Rothlin. The only non-african runners that have run faster than him are Ronaldo da Costa and Toshinari Takaoka (if you consider Khalid "african" like I do)

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/inout=o/age=n/season=0/sex=M/all=y/legal=A/disc=MAR/detail.html

Hall has proven to be competitive on the world stage, something no other American Marathoner can claim right now, except Meb.

Yeah, if you mean by one minute faster...And by the way, Rothlin won a Bronze medal at the World Championships in the Marathon at Osaka in 07, something Ryan could never achieve. Sometimes, marathoning isn't always about times.

sebby wrote:

someone else wrote:

I am not flaming anyone. The OP is flaming the Brojos for their opinion and I am saying it is their right to believe that and it shouldn't matter to anyone else what they think.

No, he was stating his OPINION that he does not believe Ryan Hall is the finest American Born marathoner. Do you get it. Read his post again.

Yes, we understand you like Ryan Hall. I like Ryan Hall as well. He is not the finest American born marathoner; not even close. Get over it.

He was stating his opinion that the Brojos were wrong and I was saying that they have the right to their opinion and it is not wrong.

What did you not understand about my post. I clearly refuted your points and defined terms for you that you didn't understand. I even divided it into "firstly" and "secondly" because I understand you are a little special. Perhaps the last sentence was a bit confusing, but such is the nature of tautology. I was simply driving home the point that they can't be "wrong" if it is only their opinion. What if I believe Ryan Hall is the finest American born marathoner? I don't need to accept that he isn't and "get over it" because my opinion is just as good as yours.

Verstehen Sie?

someone else wrote:

What did you not understand about my post. I clearly refuted your points and defined terms for you that you didn't understand. I even divided it into "firstly" and "secondly" because I understand you are a little special. Perhaps the last sentence was a bit confusing, but such is the nature of tautology. I was simply driving home the point that they can't be "wrong" if it is only their opinion. What if I believe Ryan Hall is the finest American born marathoner? I don't need to accept that he isn't and "get over it" because my opinion is just as good as yours.

Verstehen Sie?

Forgot a question mark on the first sentence. Yeah, yeah, I know.

someone else wrote:

He was stating his opinion that the Brojos were wrong and I was saying that they have the right to their opinion and it is not wrong.

Are you for real???? This is a message board, where people state opinions and facts, and sometimes opinions that people believe are facts. He has just as much right to his opinion, both on whether Ryan is the finest, as well as his opinion that the Brojos are wrong. That is what debate is all about. The OP did nothing wrong but come on here and state his opinion and you got personally offended by it. You really are a piece of work.

The interesting part of all of this is that the Brojos DID say that Ryan Hall was the finest American born marathoner, not that they THOUGHT he was. They posted it as if it were indeed a fact, which it most certainly is not. It is alright to have an opinion, but it should be stated that way. Someone new to this board that doesn't know much about running, could come on here and believe what was written, when in fact most people do not agree with what the Brojos posted.

People don't have to say "I think" for it to be an opinion.

Sure, the OP had an opinion. Fine, I shouldn't have called him out for it, but I still disagree and think that Ryan Hall is the finest American born marathoner. How are you going to factually demonstrate that I am wrong.

By the way, you have no right to call anything I say gibberish. I am just going to act like you didn't type that first paragraph.

Salazar was born in Cuba.

But Rodgers, is by far the finest American born ever.

4x NYC and 4x Boston.

C'mon!!!!!!

No one will ever come close to that from the U.S. of A ever ever again!!!!!

Hands down. THE best.

Sorry Joanie, you are very very close.

But the 2x (4x) trumps the Gold Medal. Very very sorry.

That's pretty amazing, especially setting AR's at Boston, which isn't exactly a speedway. Incredible how he was able to stay (relatively) consistent even while running 4-5 marathons per year.

someone else wrote:

People don't have to say "I think" for it to be an opinion.

Sure, the OP had an opinion. Fine, I shouldn't have called him out for it, but I still disagree and think that Ryan Hall is the finest American born marathoner. How are you going to factually demonstrate that I am wrong.

By the way, you have no right to call anything I say gibberish. I am just going to act like you didn't type that first paragraph.

There is a difference between a discussion between two friends and what is posted on a web site. The front page is full of facts and the way the Brojos stated that Ryan was the finest, it also looked like a fact, not an opinion. Whoever wrote that should have said it was their opinion, based on where it was written and how it could be perceived.

Nice to see that you finally agree that the OP didn't do anything wrong by stating his opinion that the Brojos opinion was wrong. Ooops, more gibberish. Time to watch some football.

By the way, I do admit that whether Ryan is the finest American born marathoner or not IS an opinion and not a fact. I do believe however if anyone took the time to really analyze it, which a few posters have, most people will come to the conclusion that both Rodgers and Shorter were much better.

I too would say Rodgers. That being said, all of his wins were before the dominance of the Ethiopian and Kenyans. Once they began to rise, it was a very different playing field.

It's like comparing apples to oranges. You can't just look at win tally and say that Rodgers and Shorter were far and away better than Ryan Hall. They didn't exactly have to square off against 2:04 guys every time they toed the line. We don't know if Ryan Hall would have performed just as well as they did during that era, in the same way that we don't know whether or not Rodgers and Shorter would have achieved the same dominance against the rest of the world today.

The Brojos are entitled to their opinion, and yes, it does carry some merit.

Tough to compare eras, but also keep in mind that with most of those wins, Rodgers (and Shorter) rarely had anyone to push/pace them and solo'd many of their faster marathons. While Hall's 2:06 was a "with a pack" 5th place finish.

And on top of that Rodgers regularly raced 10 to 25 non-marathon events a year. Whereas Hall typically "plans" 2 marathons and 2-4 tune up races a year.

Even a "straight up" comparison, I doubt that Hall can even run 3 marathons in 2:09 to 2:12 AND run 15 sub 29 minute 10K's in a year.

A guy from my home town, Saint Louis Park Mn, had the world record back in the 60's. That being said, WHAT ABOUT DEENA?? Olympic medalist. If you take out Paula's WR performance, she can give any woman who's as ever lived a totally legitimate challenge.

My vote is for Deena.

Snatch wrote:

A guy from my home town, Saint Louis Park Mn, had the world record back in the 60's. That being said, WHAT ABOUT DEENA?? Olympic medalist. If you take out Paula's WR performance, she can give any woman who's as ever lived a totally legitimate challenge.

My vote is for Deena.

I'm pretty sure he was the first man to go under 2:15.

He wasn't actually 'from' St. Louis Park as he was born in KY. Edelen should definitely be in contention for "Finest American-Born Marathoner" if there were such an award.