this shouldn't be alarming at all. To qualify as an enlisted you need to score in the 32nd percentile or higher. So if only 25% fail that actually implies the military population is more intelligent than the general population. I realize that's not saying much though.
I took the test recently for ocs and it felt much easier than a high school entrance exam. Having said that I was surprised to find out some inner city kids had scored a 9 and a 25 on it.
What about 36DD?
A couple insights....
Most people "fail" BCT due to medical reasons. Once you join you have signed a contract with the government for 8 years. The government spends A LOT of money to train you in BCT and AIT....I saw numbers recently during a google search that it's around 50k per soldier for BCT and another 50k for AIT. So, they really aren't trying to "weed" people out as much as they are trying to train you and make you a soldier. Passing a test isn't as important as being trainable. Again....passing a test isn't as important as being trainable. Can you follow instructions? Can you improve?
In BCT you MUST do 2 things: Pass the APFT and pass BRM. Fail the APFT and they can recycle you or send you to "Fit Camp". Fail BRM and they can recycle you. Recycling basically means you get to start over (sometimes from day 1) with another company. You will get chances to prove you are trainable and can improve.
A lot of people, here and elsewhere, have this holier than thou attitude when it comes to the military that I don't quite understand. Are people that insecure?
Alan
For the record I scored a 98 on the ASVAB, 293 on the APFT (best run in the company) and scored Sharpshooter on my BRM.
To turn the OP's stats around....3 in 4 PASS the ASVAB. Most of the males and females in our company had respectable ASVAB scores, scored 200-250 on the APFT or hit at least Sharpshooter.
So instead of playing up the negatives how about we all play up the positives for a change?
Alan
getsome wrote:
this shouldn't be alarming at all. To qualify as an enlisted you need to score in the 32nd percentile or higher. So if only 25% fail that actually implies the military population is more intelligent than the general population. I realize that's not saying much though.
I took the test recently for ocs and it felt much easier than a high school entrance exam. Having said that I was surprised to find out some inner city kids had scored a 9 and a 25 on it.
It wasn't a percentile score to pass, rather it was getting a minimum of 31/99 questions right.
Flagpole wrote:
(basic questions such as 2 + x = 4)?
Everyone knows that you can't add a letter to a number! Man, who ARE these military people anyway?
1 in 4 cannot pass this test.
But only 1 in 10 believes in Bigfoot.
Who is dumber?
lol
"The AFQT score is a percentile score"
There is no penalty for a wrong answer so if what you said was true everyone who just guesses would average around a 25 on the test.
The scary thing is, that all of those who fail are allowed to vote ....democrat.
Old Man Runner wrote:
Hey, its pretty hard!
Here is a sample of questions based upon a quick Google search...
http://www.official-asvab.com/questions/app/question_ar1_app.htm
I can't believe some people think these are difficult questions. This is 7th-grade level math. There are 9-year-olds in China who can answer these.
I suspect that 15-20% of LR posters couldn't answer all three correctly.
If one in four are failing the exam, it reflects poorly on our society much more so than the military; I would be more concerned if everyone passed. A high failure rate shows that our military does have standards. I took the exam as a high school senior and thought it was fairly easy, although I did miss a few questions. I think the exam is a good exam for its purpose; it is by no means a cakewalk, especially if you don't prep for it. I have helped a couple of kids prepare for the exam and I would bet you that if the average college graduate walked off the street and took the exam you would have some failures.
A few things:
Re: "(basic questions such as 2 + x = 4)"...it is not fair to pick perhaps the easiest question on the exam to illustrate your point.
To the person that said people join the military because they have no other options. Joining the military these days means you have a chance at dying...you would have to have very choices to choose that option.
To the person that said the military is full of dumb people because they are easy to indoctrinate. I quess the German people and Japanese people prior to WWII were all stupid. The next time you use a World Wide Web (Internet), digital camera, cell phone, microwave, GPS device...
Canned Food
Plastic Surgery
Trench Coat
Air Traffic Control
Low light Photography
Space Exploration
Weather satellite
Nuclear Power and Nuclear medicine
Radar
Jaws of Life
Blood Transfusion
Computer Networks
Programming Languages such as ADA, COBOL
etc., etc.
behind on my news wrote:
What about 36DD?
I stand corrected.
Old Man Runner,
That was actually a pretty good selection of questions! I don't think there was anything particularly hard in there, but there were enough questions covering a wide enough range that you have to have something upstairs to be able to do well (I had to guess on a couple of them and did manage to get one wrong).
Also people need to keep in mind the percentile score is based on the AFQT score, which includes only four areas of the test: Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, Arithmatic Reasoning, and Mathmatical Knowledge. There are nine total test areas.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/l/blafqtscore.htm
To compute the AFQT Score: 2VE + AR + MK.
VE being Verbal Expression which is: Scaled Score of WK+PC. The scale is in the link.
You also have different scores required for various MOS's (ie: Army jobs). These are a combination of the nine scores. GT is the biggest factor for many MOS's, GT or General Technical is VE + AR. A high Skilled Technical or ST score is typically needed for the more skilled MOS's. ST is General Science (GS), Verbal Expression (VE), Mechanical Comprehension (MC) and Mathematics Knowledge (MK).
So...it's possible that you could have a high enough AFQT but your line scores too low and that could leave you out of a job. Typically....a AFQT score of 50 will lead you to high enough line scores for all MOS's.
It's a 3-4 hour test...took me about 90 minutes.
Alan
Of the 29 sample questions in the link I missed two
the sparkplug question-I do not drive and doubt I've looked under the hood of a car in 45 years-no lawnmotor or model planes either. Thinking about it never owned an internal combustion engine in any form.
The ohms/volts Q- no freekin idea-I actually guessed and got it correct but I guessed so I give my self 27/29
or 93.1% which would put me on the lower lip of the highest level.
Anyone else willing to admit that they are not perfect?
TrackCoach wrote:
If one in four are failing the exam, it reflects poorly on our society much more so than the military; I would be more concerned if everyone passed. A high failure rate shows that our military does have standards.
Please. The standards aren't high enough. There was still Abu Ghraib and other war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Oh wait..people like Gen Colin Powell, Gen Wesley Clark, Gen Tommy Franks, Gen David Petreaus to name a few..ya know, stupid un-rocket scientist like minds. Keep in mind there are some VERY bright minds in the service, VERY bright.
army embarrassment wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:If one in four are failing the exam, it reflects poorly on our society much more so than the military; I would be more concerned if everyone passed. A high failure rate shows that our military does have standards.
Please. The standards aren't high enough. There was still Abu Ghraib and other war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Was that any worst than things that happen in society?
an Officer wrote:
Oh wait..people like Gen Colin Powell, Gen Wesley Clark, Gen Tommy Franks, Gen David Petreaus to name a few..ya know, stupid un-rocket scientist like minds. Keep in mind there are some VERY bright minds in the service, VERY bright.
And what do they have in common? They're generals. No one's disputing the cream of the crop here, it's the minimal entry standards.