Earth to Dathan

Good art wrote:

Probably does. I think your overestimating his advisors. Perhaps 90 percent of the let's run yahoos would serve Dathan better than his "advisors".

That pretty much sums up the LRC mindset.

The Party's Crashing Us wrote:

Good art wrote:

Probably does. I think your overestimating his advisors. Perhaps 90 percent of the let's run yahoos would serve Dathan better than his "advisors".

That pretty much sums up the LRC mindset.

That,s good. Nice when the majority of people can recognize when " the emperor has no clothes".

DAMMIT Salazar you were going to put Webb in the 4K Cross and changed your mind?

NOOO so many things wrong!

since he won't update his blog you assume he is re-evaluating his 2012 option?

I might as well say since your name is Sagarin one must assume you are gay.

In any case, what source do you have that Dathan was planning to run the Marathon in 2012? I'm thinking he will evaluate, not re-evaluate, on through the 2011 season.

Well, I have a beautiful wife and two very smart kids, but I suppose that doesn't mean I'm not gay.

I also have met Dathan and know many of his friends through the running community. His focus always has been the 2012 marathon, which you can find numerous sources about with a simple letsrun search alone. He seems to be flying under the radar now, which isn't a bad thing. I think lower case j's has this right. Go back and read his post.

I agree with Solinsky that tinkering with form is a very risky strategy, and I remain steadfast in my comment that Dathan seek out Joe Vigil for the marathon if he is adamant about running it.

As for the market, no one alive has a crystal ball and with the Fed's audacity, ANYTHING is possible in the short run as I've already attested to, but I believe I was the first on here to ever warn about the coming deflation in 2007 (which the Fed is "fighting"), mentioned that I sold my entire portfolio in January 2008, warned that the unemployment rate was going to double digits when others were quoting "economists" back when they had it capped at 7.6%, and suggested silver, among other non-dollar denominated assets, as a great place to hide out. And, relative to US stocks, silver has been fantastic. Moreover, in real, not nominal, terms, the US stock market has gone nowhere.

Our government has put our sub-prime "sovereign" debt in an even more precarious position, even as they probably will cultivate "growth" for several quarters. But the day of reckoning will come, as we've done nothing to impose real fiscal austerity, attract capital investment, and restructure our toxic balance sheets -- only swapped them in a massive ponzi scheme between the Fed, Treasury, big banks, and the taxpayer.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2009-10-11-ritzenheinworldhalfmarathon_N.htm

Sagarin wrote:

I remain steadfast in my comment that Dathan seek out Joe Vigil for the marathon if he is adamant about running it.

You do realize that you are reccomending a Coach that has NEVER coached any male runner to a sub 2:13? Joe Vigil is the finest cross-country coach that this country has ever seen but other than Deena, has had very limited success in the marathon.

Vigil has never had the kind of talent that Ritz possesses, at least not amongst those focused on the marathon, though I believe he had some influence on 2:08-flat Tanzanian Juma Ikaanga. You are correct that he has coached an Olympic medalist though, something only Bob Larsen can say at the marathon distance, though Larsen was working with a PROVEN American citizen with East-African genes.

For the record, I do think Ritz is capable of a fast marathon. He probably would be much faster than 2:10:00 had he run a more controlled race in London and not blasted out in 14:37 for the first 5k. But he hasn't proven that he can overcome his fuel issues late in any marathon he's ever run.

If he's really planning a spring marathon, that should be telling, because if he bombs again, then he will probably refocus on the track.

How is it possible to agree on running, but nothing else? It is possible, apparently. But about the coaches, isn't Mahon the coach of two U.S. Olympic marathon medalists? Specifically, why Vigil?

TrackCoach wrote:

I wish people would stop referring to Ritz/Webb/Hall/Teg as young; I would not call them old, but they don't qualify for the young tag anymore. When our atheletes leave the NCAA system they are alreay 22/23, which is only 2-3 years from their physical peak.

What would you call Allyson Felix and Sanya Richards, who are only about a year older than Rupp and Wheating?

Wrong. While there is no way to prove a specific age at which an athlete will peak, most experts will agree that for ENDURANCE athletes, they peak in their late 20's to early 30's, perhaps even mid 30's.

I doubt it's fuel issues in terms of lack of fuel-probably more that he burns it all up early on. I recently read the Runners World piece on his Footlocker win over Webb and Hall. Ritz's tendency is to run his heart out. He's balls to the wall. He obviously can make it work for shorter distances-but not for 26.2 miles. How many people have referenced that the race doesn't start until you get through the first 20 miles. If Ritz were to run the first 20 miles comfortably and then run the last 6.2 with all he's got, we might see a fantastic performance. I'm agreeing with you Sagarin I'm just detailing it to see if we're on the exact same page. Of course as all runners know performance is subject to the day. Anyway I certainly hope whatever it is he figures it out and put's up some great performances for us to awe over.

JimJamesrunner. So far, with the exception of London, all of Ritzenheins marathons have been run very conservatively early on.

I agree with Sagarin that Ritzenhein has fuel problems in the marathon, but I'm wondering is that nut will ever be cracked. It seems that his body just does not handle the marathon as well as one would think, and I believe that's a personal physiological issue that might not ever be fixed.

When you look at Ritzenhein objectively, his best events are 3000/5000, not 5000/10000, not 10000/HM and not HM/marathon. He may never run a marathon that is as good as his 3k/5k.

First rule of running: run the races that you excel at, not the ones you want to excel at.

jjjjjjjjjjj wrote:

How is it possible to agree on running, but nothing else? It is possible, apparently. But about the coaches, isn't Mahon the coach of two U.S. Olympic marathon medalists? Specifically, why Vigil?

Well, you are a far-left liberal with an inflexible, entrenched mindset, whereas I am a fiscally conservative independent, "almost libertarian," but there's probably a lot more we agree on than you realize.

As for Vigil, he had significant input into the predecessor to Mahon's Mammoth Lakes training group and I believe worked as a consultant to Mahon in the beginning. I think he also coached Pete DeLaCerda (sp?) to a second-place finish at the 2000 Olympic Trials, which, while admittedly a battle of attrition, he "overachieved." Could be wrong that Vigil was coaching him, but I think he was. Anyway, the guy knows his shit.

And I think Malmo has it right about Ritz, but we will know for sure if he runs another pancake flat time-trial course in the spring.

HAIL SAGARIN !!!!!!!!!!

NotPeakedYet wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

I wish people would stop referring to Ritz/Webb/Hall/Teg as young; I would not call them old, but they don't qualify for the young tag anymore. When our atheletes leave the NCAA system they are alreay 22/23, which is only 2-3 years from their physical peak.

What would you call Allyson Felix and Sanya Richards, who are only about a year older than Rupp and Wheating?

Wrong. While there is no way to prove a specific age at which an athlete will peak, most experts will agree that for ENDURANCE athletes, they peak in their late 20's to early 30's, perhaps even mid 30's.

This. ^^

Vigil has failed in the male marathon. Delacerda never broke 2:14, neither did Ryan Shay or Matt Downin. All of these guys ran faster than Brett Gotcher for 10k. How was Pat Porters marathon career?

Face it, Vigil was a one trick pony with Deena. What other female ran sub 2:30? Remember that Jen Rhines was NOT training under Vigil when she made the Olympic Team.

Starving in Flagstaff wrote:

Vigil has failed in the male marathon. Delacerda never broke 2:14, neither did Ryan Shay or Matt Downin. All of these guys ran faster than Brett Gotcher for 10k. How was Pat Porters marathon career?

Face it, Vigil was a one trick pony with Deena. What other female ran sub 2:30? Remember that Jen Rhines was NOT training under Vigil when she made the Olympic Team.

DeLaCerda, Ryan Shay, and Matt Downin all ran faster than 28:10? Really? That's news to me. Porter never ran the marathon, though he may have "tried" it once. I think he said he never had any interest in running more than two hours, even in training. Vigil never had the kind of talent Ritz has to work with in the marathon. And remember, Deena was pretty much a nobody before she moved to Alamosa, one of the few willing to make the commitment.

I'm sure Vigil had influence on 2:08 guy Juma Ikaanga who specifically moved to Alamosa to train. And again, Vigil had significant consulting input into the groups that trained in the California enclaves.

far left liberal? that's an oxymoron. and I make my decisions on what policies to support on the basis of evidence, not ideology. that's what separates liberals from conservatives.

Sagarin wrote:

I'm sure Vigil had influence on 2:08 guy Juma Ikaanga who specifically moved to Alamosa to train. And again, Vigil had significant consulting input into the groups that trained in the California enclaves.

Juma trained in Alamosa because of the Altitude. Coach Vigil was kind enough to show him around. Vigil NEVER coached Juma. Show me one article where Juma indicates that Vigil was his coach.

Has Vigil been coaching elite marathoners longer than McMillan? What about the Hansons?

Let's compare top 5 lists of the 3. The legendary Joe Vigil should dominate, right?

malmo wrote:

I agree with Sagarin that Ritzenhein has fuel problems in the marathon, but I'm wondering is that nut will ever be cracked. It seems that his body just does not handle the marathon as well as one would think, and I believe that's a personal physiological issue that might not ever be fixed.

When you look at Ritzenhein objectively, his best events are 3000/5000, not 5000/10000, not 10000/HM and not HM/marathon. He may never run a marathon that is as good as his 3k/5k.

First rule of running: run the races that you excel at, not the ones you want to excel at.

Did Tergat and Gebreselassie run their best times in their first few Marathons?

No, it took a few attempts.