Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 12/12

Race: Boston

Aim: under 2:45

Mon.- 10mi. recovery. Slow.

Tues.- 12mi., evening.

Wed.- 9mi..

Th.- Morn.: 10mi.; night 5mi.

Fri.- morn. 9mi.; eve. 5mi.

Sat.- 10mi.: 3mi. up; 8km tempo 31:06 (windy and slow); 2mi. dn.

Sun.- 14mi. 1:46.

Week: 84 miles with one 8km tempo. I’ve been over 80mi. per week for a month now and will try to increase that to 90+ with 1-2 days of intervals or tempos every week throughout the rest of the month and the winter. At the moment I’m not too concerned about the times on the quality work – as long as I get out there regardless of the harsh winter conditions.

Goal Race: TBD

The last two weeks my hip has improved quite a bit, from a combination of foam rolling, stretching, and strengthening. Still a bit sore but progressing by the day.

Sun 12/5 : 40min run, 20 minute elliptical. First run back, sore psoas/hip

Mon 12/6: 60 run easy

Tues: AM 60minute run, PM 35minute stairmaster

Wed: AM 60 minute stationary bike

Thur PM: 60minute run easy, 30minute bike

Fri: AM: 75minute run, 15 minute bike

Sat: AM 65minute run, PM 30minute bike

Sun AM 90 minute stationary bike.

Miles: about 45 run, "35" xtrain.

Really happy the legs are feeling strong, and I am happy to have gotten a few "doubles" in. Good start to the base season!

Great run blazn!

Lets keep up the good work and stay motivated guys!

blaznbison24 - Awesome is all I have to say about that.

My week fell short of what I wanted to do:

Goal: Vermont City, PR

M 20 easy

T 20 easy

W 20 total, with 5x800 in 2:30 with 400 recovery

Th 20 easy

F 12 total, with 4 miles in 23:00

S 9 easy

Su 9 easy

Tot 110

I didn't end up doubling at all this week, which I had planned on. The 800 workout felt a lot harder than it should have, and then the tempo on Friday was a big struggle too. I could take a hint and decided to do a few days with really low mileage.

It's possible I'm trying to rush back into training like I was this summer, which is probably stupid. For now I'll just run a lot/run hard when I feel good, back off when I need to, and work my way back up. I'll have to train around a MA thesis/defense scheduled for late March/earl April, so being cautious until that's mostly done might be better anyway.

I'm 285 miles from a nice round number for the year, so I may have to make sure I get that :)

blaznbison: That must have felt great negative splitting the way you did. We all dream about that, regardless of our pace. (The guy in fifth place had a 7-8 minute positive split so he must have been hurting bad.)

cadillac: 20 milers almost every day? How fast are you running those???

Wow Blazin... amazing man. Congrats.

Abu, you and I once again have a similar week.

I vow to get serious this week, though truthfully, feel like I'm running on fumes right now. Not enough sleep and too much work/travel.

Goal: Train consistently and race when I feel fit

Mon- 0

Tue- 9

Wed- 10

Thur- 6

Fri- 5

Sat- 10

Sun- 0

Weekly Total: 40

Club Cross was a bit of a disaster. Went out in 5:23, came through 2 miles in right around 11:00, my hip/hamstring tightened. I stopped to stretch... started, stopped, started, and by that time, was so far back, I said, "screw it" and dropped out to cheer on my boys.

We finished 18th (results have us at 20, but they mistakenly put one of my guys on the "B" team when he should have been on the "A" team... that moves us to 18th). Not a great results after the last 2 years of placing 10th and 12th, but considering 5 of my top 6 ran Chicago (2:27, 2:28, 2:31, and 2:36) and Bay State (2:29), and it was BY FAR the deepest field in my 7 years of coaching and attending the meet, I guess we can't be too disappointed. I thought 15th was doable, but oh well.

Going to try and ramp up mileage this week while keeping it very slow. We'll see how that goes.

I took the gel at 22 because I was really scared of hitting the wall. I've heard so many times in the past about how great people felt at 20 but then felt like death at 22. At one of the stops, I took an extra Gu and just stuck it in my pocket for later. I probably should have taken Gatorade but I had a ton of trouble drinking out of the cups.

Thanks for all of the props. I gave myself a 50/50 shot of 2:30, which is why I kept on slamming on the brakes. This thread taught me a lot and made my marathon so much easier, especially with all of the support and ideas I stole from you all.

CTA wrote:

cadillac: 20 milers almost every day? How fast are you running those???

This summer at peak training for an ultra I did, "easy" would have been about the paces pablo has been doing (7 min/mile or so). However, I almost never time my runs except for harder workouts, so I don't know exactly.

Given that I'm in Cleveland, they are likely going to be a lot slower for a few months unless I can force myself to use a treadmill consistently.

GoalRace Y10 10 miler (feb) Cleveland Marathon (May)

GoalTime Low 70s 3:20s

30 miles this week with only a couple of striders. Took a bit of a step back week with no harder running except a couple of strider sets. I'm taking my base buildup extremely cautious, which is OK since I have plenty of time. I should run around 40 this week, with a small workout (400s or 200s) and tempo run.

I'm lacing up my wrestling shoes for the first time in 10 years or so tonight. Next week I should be giving my injury report.

Progress wrote:

One final clarification... when you say you run by feel, can you describe the "feel" you're going for?

It's hard to say one answer for all easy runs...because, again, every runner and every day is different. On days where I'm just feeling like garbage, I make the run SLOW...like uncomfortably slow. But those days don't happen all that often, but when they do, you'll know it. Your legs ache, your body is tired, and a 4 miler at 7:45-8:00 pace always helps out with that. I always feel that if you finish a run feeling better than when you started, then the run was worthwhile.

The important thing I remember on easy days is to never force the pace. That way I let my body dictate how fast or slow it wants or needs to go. Usually these runs start out slow and finish fairly quick...a progression run of sorts, but sometimes they start slow and finish slow. Like you said before, the term "easy" is very subjective and different every day. That's why I try to never force anything on these days, if you do that, you'll fall into the pace you need.

Hey Cadillac,

Is there any chance you graduated from U of C?

A buddy of mine in grad school mentioned that an ex-U of C runner living in Cleveland was running quite fast and he also noted the he logged really high mileage.

Keep up the good training.

blazn,

Did you have a conservative goal or do you think some part of your training let you nail the last bit of the marathon? (nice job! what are you secrets!!)

Great race and report Bison. The fact that you finished so evenly indicates you ran the race close to perfectly as far as I'm concerened. Very inspiring.

Another frustrating week for me. I ran a little more and for most of the week felt better each day - until Sunday when I think I pushed a bit too hard. Heel/ankle still aggravated but in general it feels better when/after I run, so I'm trying to plug along. I'm trying to run with as natural a motion as possible, but as one who's never been good at going slowly I'm fighting against myself the whole way.

Goal: Heal heel then 2:48 in the spring

Race: Gansett

Mon - Off

Tues - 6 (Very easy hill run, no accelerations)

Wed - 6 (7:00, just ran - probably too hard.)

Thurs - 3.5 (7+ Easier than wed.)

Fri - Off

Sat - 6.5 (7:00, again, probably too hard)

Sun - 11 (averaged about 7's, but spent much of the run in the 6:40-50 range. Finished with some dynamic striding - not a good idea.)

33 Total 2390 YTD

I'm very much hoping to get to 2500 for the year, but I also want to be healthy for next year. Maybe this will finally help me learn how to run easy when I should run easy.

First time poster on this thread,

Goal Race: Davis Stampede Half Feb 6th

Goal Time: 69:29

M: 7 easy (6:44)

T: 6.15 easy (6:55)

W: 7.05 easy (6:42)

T: 5.35 easy (6:44)

F: 8 easy (6:35/mud awful)

S: 7.05 easy (6:44)

S: 10 easy (6:35)

Total: 50.6

Starting workouts eventually.

Progress wrote:

I have a quick question on you easy pace, if you don't mind...My question is, what are your thoughts about the "right" pace?

First let me say I have been lurking on this thread for a long time. Not only is it very educational but you are all incredible athletes. When I need some motivation, I just read this thread. Great work everyone.

Very interesting discussion on recovery pace. I recently read (I think it was in Sandrock's book 'Running Tough') about Frank Shorter's easy days. He apparently invited his cousin and a friend of his cousin to join him for his run. Well the cousin's friend was both excited and intimidated by running with Shorter. They meet up and Frank starts jogging, really really slow. The cousin's friend is waiting for the pace to start picking up but it never does. They just run along at a pretty pedestrian pace for 10 miles. All the time the cousin's friend is straining at the bit to go faster. He picks it up a few times but no one goes with him. So, he settles back down and jogs along. Along the way they are passed, so the story goes, by several recreational runners and a girl wearing a hoody! Apparently Shorter took easy days very, very easy.

The story went on to say that Shorter invites these guys out again the next day. They meet up with several other runners and go to the track were they did repeat miles or 800s. Well apparently these guys are just smoking and the cousin's friend is not even able to hang on for half the workout.

I am no where near the calibre of the other runners on this thread and am cautious about offering any guidance to those much better qualified than me, but I think the principle is clear. Run as slow as you need to recover and be ready for the workout days.

Progress wrote:

I have a quick question on you easy pace, if you don't mind...My question is, what are your thoughts about the "right" pace?

I really like runmore's description. Just read the last sentence a couple times to make sure. In college, if I wasn't running 6:40 or faster I thought I was going too slow. Now I'm in grad school and I have no problem running as slow as I feel like; I'll even run with girls, which back then would have been a big no-no (I know some females are faster than me, but I'm making a point here, no offense intended to anyone).

However, now I run mileage and workouts I wouldn't have even dreamed of back in college (4x5k at half marathon pace with 400 recovery, for example), and have even PRed for the mile in the middle of another workout after a long run in the morning (in addition to a marathon PR that was unexpectedly fast).

Abu Seyame - That sounds like it's probably me, especially the high mileage and U of C part. Of course now I'm curious who your friend is.

I'm really not enjoying all this talk of recovery runs!

I do my easy days too hard. I know it's bad but I can't seem to stop myself! So I'm getting major guilt reading how other people do their easy runs properly!

Something to focus on for next week!

This thread gets even better every week. It is great that posters help each other out. There are so many different ways to reach ones goals. Sometimes the problem is finding the right one for you.

My week ending 12-12-1970 began with the Culver Marathon.

I placed 18th and was on the team that placed 2nd. My time was 2:37:53 (29-26-30-32-32) That told me exactly what shape I was in.

Training the week of 12-12-70--27, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8 = 58

Goal Race: The Boston Marathon on April 19 1971

Goals: To finally run a sub 2:30 and to place well

niarun wrote:

blazn,

Did you have a conservative goal or do you think some part of your training let you nail the last bit of the marathon? (nice job! what are you secrets!!)

I thought I could run 2:30 with a good race but I was uncertain about it, so I don't think it was too conservative of a goal. What I really think helped me "last out" the last 10k was getting in the best 10k/half marathon shape I could from August-mid October and then running all of my harder workouts right near marathon pace for the last two months of training.

During the race itself, I was terrified of hitting the wall, so everything I did was as controlled and as efficient as I could make it. Before making any adjustments I thought about how it would affect me late in the race. My favorite thing about racing is attacking and the battles that come along with it, but in this race, I had to play it cool and stay as relaxed as possible. I was constantly analyzing how I was feeling and how my legs were moving. I was nervous about the nutrition during the race, but I seemed to absorb the stuff well (took 4 Gu's dissolved into a 10oz. water bottle and added a little extra sodium and potassium into them and one Gu by itself) and made myself take all of the Gu, even if I felt I didn't need it.

I also went old school Arthur Lydiard style and took in about 8-10 oz. of honey the last two days before the race. I don't know if this had anything to do with my race, I just wanted to do it because I really love honey.