Should NXN 2011 be in Dallas or Orlando ?

them stupeedohs wrote:

portland in august is fine. portland in december is stupid.

Portland in December is perfect XC weather.

VCP is a great course to run, but it is not so great for spectators. For an event like this, I assume Nike wants a course on which you can see the race evolve. God knows what happens on the back hills from when the runners cross the bridge until they return.

VCP and Portland suck in December. Trade shows are best in warm weather tourist spots. For NYC, April is best. For Portland, June, July, August is best.

ChubsyUbsy wrote:

VCP is a great course to run, but it is not so great for spectators. For an event like this, I assume Nike wants a course on which you can see the race evolve. God knows what happens on the back hills from when the runners cross the bridge until they return.

I hate to admit it, but you're right. I've heard all sorts of reasons why no national championship race of any type should be there, and most of the reasons are bunk, but I've heard this before, and it's the one valid criticism of the idea. Unfortunately, it's kind of a big one :(

the truth hurtzzz wrote:

How about they change the cross country course every year or so? Keeping it in the same region always favors that region, as the runners there are more adapted to the weather/course...

Keep it in the West or the South, those kids need that little advantage because they always get destroyed at Footlocker by the other regions with real hills and XC courses.

runn wrote:

There have to be fan friendly courses that are "real" courses.

The course in Tully, NY is good (alhtough flat). Chenengo Valley St Park in Bignhamton, NY is a great course and the NY fans can see the NY teams clean up.

NXN- get rid of the Cali Division and add more NY auto entries.

East Aurora of NY would have been top 12 and as it is, NY had 3 in the top 9.

Be more biased.

More biased? OK- let's give NY 6 auto entries for girls. Keep 2 for boys.

Give Cali 2 ans that's it.

I just want more of the best teams there, that's all.

As far as courses, I only know NY's and, face it, a NY team has won every one of these girls races and took 1-2-3 once. How often has NY finished 1-2 or 1-3?

By the way a New York team won 6 years in a row? And Arcadia who won the boys is from Southern California. Not a big advantage there...

Footlocker will never be taken over by NXN. NXN has some work to do and will never be considered a true HS championship until the HS teams can actually run there in their school uniforms. Could you imagine if NCAA made the Universities come up with some fake club name to participate. That is just one minor reason NXN will never take off outside of the running community.

They also have a long way to go on the qualifying process. California's season is too long. They go from Mt. Sac to League to sub section to state to nationals and are beat up by the time they get there. Shorten the season by two weeks and set up a proper region race on the west coast or this will never take off.

If it does move I hope they continue to have a "pre-nationals" race much like NCAA. Also, keep the open and expand it to separate races for boys and girls. Let the people who should be there but didn't get the at large bid show their stuff. Funny how a club team ran in the open race and dominated half the field.

And Portland is just fine for XC. In fact weather like that it is TRUE XC. Blue Lake park hosted nationals with a starting line of over 1000 people and a course 50 meters wide. It was the most awesome race I ever ran in. The goal was just to finish in the top 300... Bob Kennedy, Todd Williams and the top collegiate runners all duke it out. Open up the dang race like they do for World cross and let a hundred teams duke it out for a TRUE national champion.

With all due respect, NXN has already taken off. Top high school teams/programs throughout the nation have embraced this meet since the beginning. Is it perfect? No. But considering that Nike is dealing with 50 different state governing associations with state meets ranging from early October (Alaska) to Thanksgiving weekend (California), it's pretty damn good. Actually, NXN is great. By the way, with one exception, club names are geographical. Not ideal, but it doesn't change the simple fact that the best high school teams are battling it out every December.

CA will never change their state schedule. It's what it is and it obviously didn't hurt Arcadia this year. California's problem has been more of "we can't run in spikes, mud, and cold weather." Comparing the open race to the championship race is apples and oranges. It's obvious on many levels.

Blue Lake Park? I disagree. No hills. XC should be about strength.

Long Time Coach wrote:

If it does move I hope they continue to have a "pre-nationals" race much like NCAA. Also, keep the open and expand it to separate races for boys and girls. Let the people who should be there but didn't get the at large bid show their stuff. Funny how a club team ran in the open race and dominated half the field.

If by "half the field" you mean half of the invite field, you should take into account the fact that 1) the open race is way less crowded and 2) far more importantly, the open races are first and chew up the course a lot of the races that follow.

Can someone please explain to me what is so ideal about Holmdel, NJ. I am from the SE. I am just curious why this is considered such an amazing course. Thanks.

Obviously NXN has to move to a December tourist spot like Orlando, Phoenix, Miami, San Diego, or Tucson since it's going nowhere in the media and with high school cross country fans. The only people who like NXN are the HS coaches since they are paid to lubricate and suck the bratwursts of Nike Marketing. It's sad that the climax of their running careers is being on the Nike Gravy Train. The kids could care less and can't wait to get out of high school and be on their own for once.

well, each year they say that, but each year I enjoy Footlocker (much) more! Can you explain that?

I would like to see the whole state and national system streamlined. There would have to be a lot of coordination in order to do it, but it can be done with the intelligence of those out there. Cross country is always adapting, and setting a standard now would be the best way to settle disputes.

There are problems with the current system. The first one that comes to mind is that every state is different, and each has their own state meet schedule. The problem with this is that it bars some runners from running both NXN and Footlocker. Northeast and West competitors at Footlocker didn't have the option to run at NXN. This played a big part in the utter domination of the midwest.

Also, high school championships should be high school. I'm tired of track clubs and running clubs. Why does it have to be a big f**king deal to wear your school uniform and assume the name of the school. After all, this is the school you represent and attend each and every day, so why is it not okay to wear the name of it on your jersey proudly?

I've always liked the idea of NXN being for teams and some individuals and Footlocker being for individuals only. Footlocker should be the race between the best 40 kids in the country, while NXN should exemplify the team aspect more.

Unfortunately, no one sees the problem as I see it, so nothing will ever be changed.

Footlocker's and Nike's objectives are to make money. The HS XC events they stage are designed to sell product. They could care less about anything else. The CEOs have to answer to shareholders, and not to HS XC coaches who are stuck and can't get a college gig.

Move NXN around each year to different late fall tourist spots. Dallas, Houston, Orlando, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, etc.

Phenom Man wrote:

I've always liked the idea of NXN being for teams and some individuals and Footlocker being for individuals only. Footlocker should be the race between the best 40 kids in the country, while NXN should exemplify the team aspect more.

Unfortunately, no one sees the problem as I see it, so nothing will ever be changed.

The main drawback to this idea is how it effects the kids among the top 40 individuals that happen to be on one of the top teams. For many regions, kids in this position need to choose between one meet or the other due to the overlay of the regional meets. If a great kid chooses to run with his team at NXN, it weakens the field at FL. If a kid bails out on his team, it weakens the team field at NXN.

The only way to get a true National Champion is to have a single meet that gets all the top individuals and teams in one place. It works for state meets, works for the NCAA, works for the World Champs!

NY used to split individuals from teams in their Federation Meet, having 2 seperate races on the same day. Ultimately, wiser heads prevailed and that nonsense ended. Conceptually that is the same as having sepaerate FL and NXN races. Unfortunately with FL and NXN there is a strong profit motive preventing an end to the nonsense.

I agree with you... Wear the uniform of your school! Also the individual FL race and team NXN is the way it should be. There is enough to go around.

You'll have to get the state HS assns to start a champs then. FL and N have these sales conventions for their own purpose.