A good girl, Shannon Spaulding wrote:
Anyone know what happened to Jerhoemee Murray from Century HS in Oregon. He was a distance runner that signed with Oklahoma State back in 2006, and was a freshman on the team during the 2006-07 season. He would be a senior this year had he not disappeared?
Left OSU after his first year. Said college was not his thing ?
Heck of a runner at one time. Still lives in Hillsboro Or and no longer runs.
J.R. wrote: You don't see the Africans using such dumb strategies as are used in the NCAA.
Unless you go to World XC Champs.
Get Real Real wrote:
Your post would be meaningful if:
1. Okie stated fielded a full track team; rather than spending most of their scholarships on foreigners and ringers for cross country.
I get so damn tired of this. It has been made clear again and again and again that the Athletic Director has told Dave Smith that they will NOT put adequate money to fund a full track and field program. It's not scholarships that makes a great track and field team, it's all the other costs - you know, the track, the equipment for jumps, vaults, throws, etc. The Athletic Department will not fund it. Stop harping on Dave Smith. This is NOT his decision. Yes, he has a fairly unique situation, but NOT by his making. He is however, making the most of the resources he is blessed with.
If OK State were not qualifying for nationals, or were finishing in 30th every year under him, THEN you could blast away at what a crap coach he is. Instead, he is pulling in ridiculous talent and winning championships. Pretty good job if you ask me.
The funding excuse at the D-I level is tired and over used. Believe it or not, there are actually coaches out there who go out and fundraise for what ever difference there is between what the AD is willing to put in the budget and what the coach wants/needs to have a successful and balanced program. In addition, you don't need to buy 10 javelins, 15 shots, 10 discs', 20 vault poles etc. every year. You accumulate & replace as needed. There are 12.6 scholarships being spent/allocated every year, so that cost is static. As far as coaches, it looks like he certainly has a full staff that is paid, so once again, the cost is static, with only a need to switch out coaches for other event areas. I find it insulting that Smith falls back on this "funding" excuse, and indeed, it is the real reason why he will never be a John McDonnell, he's lazy.
Can anyone give me the link to Diego Estrada's interview?
?? wrote:
Can anyone give me the link to Diego Estrada's interview?
Just go over to Flotrack and you'll find it.
Why isn`t Dave Smith getting more love?
Seriously
Because all these idiots on here that said he didn't know what he was doing don't want to admit they were wrong, and now they have to make excuses for why he and the Cowboys continue to win. It's frustrating to all these posers who want to see a Stanford/Oregon dominated meet with OkieState in the background somewhere. It's truly comical; it's also why it makes the Cowboys win so good.
J.R. wrote:
You don't see the Africans using such dumb strategies as are used in the NCAA.
Then you haven't been around long. The first time I recall the Africans using the team strategy was in the 1968 Mexico City Olympics in the 1500m. Ben Jipcho set a very fast pace so Jim Ryun would follow, giving his country man Kip Kieno a better chance to win. Keino won.
Watching numerous Olympic and World Championships over the years, how many times did the announcers use the term "team tactics" when it came to the Africans. Be it the Kenyans, Ethopians. Morrocans, etc. There almost has always been team tactics to guarantee a win for their country in these championship races.
It the same in cross country, only at a very high level. They go out and pound as a team. Of course the US college runner are not as gifted, but they use the same strategy at their level.
I don't believe its a dumb strategy. Go to Flotrack and watch the interviews, almost everyone talk about team tactics. As "free beer" stated only 3-5 runners have the chance to win the individual title. For all other it come down to the team.
Cause he didnt sell out like Vin Lanana and people around here worship sellouts
oldoldrunner wrote:
Then you haven't been around long. The first time I recall the Africans using the team strategy was in the 1968 Mexico City Olympics in the 1500m. Ben Jipcho set a very fast pace so Jim Ryun would follow, giving his country man Kip Kieno a better chance to win. Keino won.
Watching numerous Olympic and World Championships over the years, how many times did the announcers use the term "team tactics" when it came to the Africans. Be it the Kenyans, Ethopians. Morrocans, etc. There almost has always been team tactics to guarantee a win for their country in these championship races.
It the same in cross country, only at a very high level. They go out and pound as a team. Of course the US college runner are not as gifted, but they use the same strategy at their level.
I don't believe its a dumb strategy. Go to Flotrack and watch the interviews, almost everyone talk about team tactics. As "free beer" stated only 3-5 runners have the chance to win the individual title. For all other it come down to the team.
Those are team tactics, yes, but they're actually the opposite of what we're talking about. The tactics you describe are based on sacrificing teammates to get one athlete the individual title. The tactics discussed here would be sacrificing the individual title to get all the teammates there. A better analogy would have been the way the Ethiopians (men) have run in major championships in the past decade, with Bekele, Geb, Sihine, Gebremariam, etc. all working together, often in a similar fashion to how Stanford and OK State's top guys ran the other day (except their goal is still individual glory since it's a track race, so they never spot the leader 30 seconds...)
you're saying the opposite wrote:
Those are team tactics, yes, but they're actually the opposite of what we're talking about. The tactics you describe are based on sacrificing teammates to get one athlete the individual title. The tactics discussed here would be sacrificing the individual title to get all the teammates there. A better analogy would have been the way the Ethiopians (men) have run in major championships in the past decade, with Bekele, Geb, Sihine, Gebremariam, etc. all working together, often in a similar fashion to how Stanford and OK State's top guys ran the other day (except their goal is still individual glory since it's a track race, so they never spot the leader 30 seconds...)
its the same concept though...running a strategy that, while not optimal for one's individual result, is the best for the team
however, Im pretty convince the guy is trolling us by feigning ignorance on this pretty basic concept, but ill bite and specify on the above example and reference the '08 10000, when Geb was falling off and Bekele and Sihine slowed down the pace to geb could stay connected long enough to kick for a possible medal, didn't work out...but same concept nonetheless
[quote]yeah... wrote:
[quote]you're saying the opposite wrot
its the same concept though...running a strategy that, while not optimal for one's individual result, is the best for the team
If you go back in history, with the Kenyans dominating the steeplechase, it was the team concept. How many 1, 2,3 did the Kenyans have in the steeple using the us concept instead of the me.
The other African runners work together, how many times have I seen them take turns leading to let the others rest. It just happens the superior runners take over at the end. So it is not opposite, just superior runners.
Like I stated earlier, the Africans do it at a much higher level.
Look at the 70's and 80's cross country results. The Aficans from the teams that dominated at that time ran together, yes at the front, because they were that good.
It was still for the team, not the individual.
I disagree Emac! Running in a pack can at times, help to carry along slower runners who would be less prone to keep up the fast pace if isolated and running to their own tempo by themselves. Visual cues can also help as well, where sticking close to your teammates colors can give you something visually to latch onto and gage your own pace. There are no set rules in “pack strategy running” but the psychology and dynamics of it are similar to that of Dog Sled Racing in that, as a group, the animals always tend to run faster together, once the pecking order has been clearly established. OSU’s bright orange uniforms really do help them to maintain a close proximity during random surges that are thrown in. I’m almost certain that GF was counting Stanford colors ahead of him going into the final K. If Elliott Heath had pulled up alongside him then, (Like should have happened!) I’m sure we would have seen him kick into 3:55 mode! It’s like GF said in his post-race interview; “Just hold on to that place baby.” It is so much easier to hold off a dude that’s coming up on you, buy surging every time he try’s a move, than to keep on trying to constantly overtake those in front of you. If you want to win as a team, you’ve got to run with your head and not just your balls! “Dave Smith is the ultimate “Musher” and he treats him “Cowboy Huskies” with the greatest of care!
Emac wrote:
Like what? In something like bike racing your team really does matter. But at the relatively slow speeds of running, how does running in a pack help? It's not like your 4th and 5th runner pulls you to the line and you sprint like heck on the last 200m. You don't gain a lot from sitting behind someone, and your team mate can't move you up through the pack, so why hold back?
To continue a cycling comparison - you are wrong. Have you ever seen a track race or heard of the concept of a rabbit?
Emac wrote:
Besides, to continue the cycling comparison, in cycling the slower guys have to keep up with the faster riders in order to be of any use. You don't ride slower so you can be with your teammates.
Except for the TEAM trial.
Emac wrote:
Holding back for a slower teammate is kinda wussy unless the consequences of not doing so involve capture by the enemy or death by some means or another (hypothermia, animal attack, etc.)
Holding back for your teammates is a risk - but less of a risk than going for it and perhaps blowing up. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
The point being that Tulsa is the home of Tulsa University and OSU is located elsewhere in fact more than 100K away for the geographically challenged. Not quite Sacramento to Palo Alto but close.