It's called training.
It's called training.
ROFLMAO...
He's Cuban, and Cubans like he and Al Sal do not cheat.
There is a way to connect the dots either way, but I am inclined to think he was clean. Doping was pretty much confined to systems sponsored by the Eastern Europe/USSR until the mid to late 70s. By the time Juantorena would have been exposed to doping, he was already a star. Also, everything about his said talented athlete.
Until Montreal, "dirty" meant amphetamines or opiates. Anabolic steroids were not banned and of course not tested for out of competition, and had been used since the 60's.
The reason they weren't banned in the 60's? They're not a "high" drug. Hippies weren't using them. Anti-doping was not about cheating until the late 70's, it was about public image. Only when the public got uppity about chemically-enhanced performances did the IOC act on steroids too. Probably pretty much every track athlete in Montreal was using anabolics of some kind, at least in preceding years and OOC in 1976.
It's still about public image today, too. WADA exists to make a sport look clean, not be clean.
He had a sick stride. I don't really care how he did it, he still did it.
I kind of doubt it.
We are talking about 1976.
It seems that drug use was limited to strength events and females behind the iron curtain
he ran at 185 lbs.
30 lbs heavier than Ovett. 55 lbs heavier than Coe.
No one that big runs 1:43 without help.
He owes Fred Newhouse an apology (and a gold medal).
One of his relatives, either son or nephew, was also an athlete and tested positive.
Furious D wrote:
El Caballo wrote:
That double is just absolutely ridiculous. I always thought that it was just an amazing performance, but having grown up a bit, the more I think about it, the more I realize how impossible that double should have been.
Anybody have any info as well on the schedule of the meet and on which days he ran?
that isnt the profile of a doper, thats the profile of someone with freakish talent. The profile of a doper is someone who has many years of mediocrity then suddenly bursts into World beating form ala Ramzi.
Well, Asbel Kiprop, who had great performances as a teen including an Olympic Gold once Ramzi was disqualified, does not fit your doper profile, yet Kiprop reportedly produced two positive samples for a banned substance within the last year.
Brian Boru wrote:
I kind of doubt it.
We are talking about 1976.
It seems that drug use was limited to strength events and females behind the iron curtain
It seemed like the strength events were doped to the gills but look at Waldemar Cierpinski who won the Olympic marathon in 1976. Come to find out he was doped as well. When will Frank Shorter get the gold medal for that event?
Pretty sure that Alberto Juantorena was on something. At the time Cuba had a lot of medical training going on with countries behind the Iron Curtain, East Germany being one of them.
heat heat wrote:
He's Cuban, and Cubans like he and Al Sal do not cheat.
Cuba, Si. Castro, no.
Trump muy bueno.
Most likely.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
In 2006, Osmany Juantorena Portuondo was the 18th Cuban athlete to be disqualified for drugs. He is Alberto Juantorena's grandson
Wikipedia says he is his nephew but he was banned for doping.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmany_Juantorenahttp://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jun/15/br/br9168053427.htmlJul 23 - 800m heats, 1:47.15
Jul 24 - 800m semis, 1:45.88
Jul 25 - 800m final, 1:43.50 world record
Jul 26 - 400m heats, 47.89
Jul 26 - 400m quarter final, 45.92
Jul 27 - no races
Jul 28 - 400m semis, 45.10
Jul 29 - 400m final, 44.26
Imagine having to run two 400m races the day after setting the 800m word record in an Olympic final.
Yes, there were westerners on the dope in the seventies and eighties but the Soviet socialists which included Cuba had a COMPULSORY, state administered doping program as starting in the 1950's.
It was important to them to paper over their hell hole regimes with athletic and arts achievements.
El Caballo was terrifically strong for 400/800. With a Polish coach, Iron Curtain, and likely Russian doctors, I can well believe that steroids and possibly blood doping were going on, but on the other hand it is possible to run those performances legally.
I have long thought that there are plenty of sub 46 400m runners who could be great at the 800m. Korir, El Caballo, and Mark Everett seem to be the best top class 800m runners at the 400m, which is to say 44.5 or better and sub 1:44. Rudisha would likely have broken 45 in the 400m if he had run it in midsummer, rather than March, and Amos had a pretty solid 4x400m split, indicating potential sub 45 open speed.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
In 2006, Osmany Juantorena Portuondo was the 18th Cuban athlete to be disqualified for drugs. He is Alberto Juantorena's grandson
http://www.fivb.org/En/Volleyball/Forms/Medical/Doping%20Cases_20091216.pdfWould still hate to think his grandad was
Two comments:
1. It's a mistake to think that fathers and sons have the same morals, the same values, etc. Even more so for grandfathers and grandsons.
2. Imagine being a competitor, but not a gold medal talent, descended from an Olympic medalist, with the pressures and expectations that go with that. That's one psychological context where someone might turn to doping.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Until Montreal, "dirty" meant amphetamines or opiates. Anabolic steroids were not banned and of course not tested for out of competition, and had been used since the 60's.
Amphetamines confer obvious and direct performance advantages. That's why the military gave them out to soldiers for decades, and why grand tour cyclists ate them like candy.