Usain Bolt - 19.59 in the 200m!

Considering drugs;

You may presume that if on that level drugs are common (as many people on this runningboard seem to think)...there's a level playing field...so why bother to discuss. If everybody is on the juice..still the best man wins.

Who the best man is seems clear to me!

One other thing; why is it that sprinters/cyclists are always accused of using dope on this board, while everyone always talks up Rupp and the other distance runners...without questioning their performances.....

ever heard of Cera....?

To all you young guns, we are all saying the same things about Michael Johnson in '96. Many thought 19.32 would stand for 100 years. No one had ever run 19.5 or 19.4, let alone low 19.3. A Bolt or a Michael Johnson will come around ever once in a while (genetic freaks). And they are all on the sauce, so it isn't that.

[B

[quote]sgh wrote:

Hey come on!

In Beijing they tested Bolt 32 times in 5 days. Think about it, 32 times!!!

So how can he be in drugs!!!

The smart ones time their cycles wisely. I don't know about EPO or whatever, but roids are taken in cycles. Only an idiot would travel to the Olympics with the stuff in their system.

It is the name, I mean lightning bolt that is sick. Is he doing the triple at Worlds?

i say he is on drugs he has to be.. i wouldnt care much if Gay would be on drugs too just to beat Bolt that would be the best thing ever.

Please.

You seriously contend that Bryan Clay is a lying cheat?

on the runs wrote:

Please.

You seriously contend that Bryan Clay is a lying cheat?

When did I type about Bryan Clay?

I meant all world-class, record-breaking sprinters (in my opinion) juice or have juiced at some point in his/her career.

Well, you also have good responders to drugs and bad responders. He could be a good responder.

I implicated our American hero, Bob Kennedy in the thread that discussed possible sub 13:00s by Americans this year. I don't discriminate. I would be pretty surprised if BK wasn't doing EPO.

I also think Rupp is questionable. I don't think he is "technically" cheating... but I think AlSal probably has him on everything that is morally questionable. Like when people were blood doping when blood doping wasn't explicitly on the banned list. Well... it was legal until it wasn't. Probably the same thing with Rupp, Kara, etc. As soon as something makes the list, I'm sure AlSal will take them off, as he should, but until its on that list, I would assume that the top guys are trying to enhance their systems as much as possible, though whatever means possible.

Don't tell me Rupp and Goucher both have legitimate asthma and a thyroid conditions. What bull.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they are totally clean either. You just never know.

And that's based on your years of working with sprinters as they made their rounds through various Olympics and World Championships?

on the runs wrote:

Please.

You seriously contend that Bryan Clay is a lying cheat?

When did I type about Bryan Clay?

I meant all world-class, record-breaking sprinters (in my opinion) juice or have juiced at some point in his/her career.

Why was the below just deleted?

Well, you also have good responders to drugs and bad responders. He could be a good responder.

I implicated our American hero, Bob Kennedy in the thread that discussed possible sub 13:00s by Americans this year. I don't discriminate. I would be pretty surprised if BK wasn't doing EPO.

I also think Rupp is questionable. I don't think he is "technically" cheating... but I think AlSal probably has him on everything that is morally questionable. Like when people were blood doping when blood doping wasn't explicitly on the banned list. Well... it was legal until it wasn't. Probably the same thing with Rupp, Kara, etc. As soon as something makes the list, I'm sure AlSal will take them off, as he should, but until its on that list, I would assume that the top guys are trying to enhance their systems as much as possible, though whatever means possible.

Don't tell me Rupp and Goucher both have legitimate asthma and a thyroid conditions. What bull.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they are totally clean either. You just never know.

FDJJJ wrote:

Seriously, how can he be that much better then everyone else? maybe (only partly kidding here) he is the first gene doped athlete? If it was drugs, chances are others would be on the same stuff and be at least close. If it was natural ability, he would have been faster earlier (I know he was very fast as a junior, but not like this). If it was the coach, we would see more times in the 19.4s and 19.5s from his stable.

Just doesn't add up.

You're right. I don't know what the deal is, but there's something going on. In one year he went from being in the mix with the best in the world at 200m to completely oblitering everyone and beating what was considered by many to be the best WR in the books (on the men's side at least) in less than ideal conditions. Just 2 years ago the 100m WR was 9.76. When you consider all the athletes over the past 20 years who've had access to modern training, modern gear, long careers to have multiple shots at fast times, and even drugs in some cases, it's hard to imagine how anyone could suddenly break the previous WR holder's time by 0.07 seconds in a style that indicated he could have run as fast as 9.59. Considering hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of humans have sprinted in HS, college, or professionally, it's hard to think that one guy could come along and genetically be that far ahead of everyone else ever to live.

It just doesn't make sense. Because he's such a star, it'd be a shame for him to be dirty, but I just don't see any other explanation. One can think that if he's on drugs then others are too, but look at Ramzi. He was on PEDs, does that mean all the other 3:29-3:33 guys are?

He doesnt have to be on the juice necessarily, but as for your statement, if he took drugs it would not be nandrolone or something old and easy to detect but a NEW and STILL UNKNOWN substance that maybe will be released to the public opinion within 3 years or even more.

still enough to make what some people may be doing.

right now there are laboratories years ahead of any test

jan zelezny wrote:

what the hell?? fourth time in history into 0.9 headwind (I think) with driving rain and easing up a bit the last 5-10 meters with 22 y/o, this guy can not be human.. what is going to happen at berlin? that is absolutely crazy, the bad thing is some people are starting to get used to this when is completely ridiculous imho.

Drugs.

on the runs wrote:

And that's based on your years of working with sprinters as they made their rounds through various Olympics and World Championships?

I base that off my experience with roids. It is much easier to cheat with them. You take them in cycles. You can cycle at points in the season where you will not be tested. Build the muscle, repair the body, train hard. You do not have to have them in your system at the time of competition to benefit.

Now for EPO I believe you actually need it in your system at the time of the race for the full benefit.

Anyone watch that documentary Bigger, Faster, Stronger?

Watch that and then come back with your thoughts on drug use.

The way Carl Lewis squirms and tries to dodge the quesion is so obvious. The way his eyes won't look straight at the interviewer or camera is just like so many world beater sprinters, and so like Bolt.

It's not a recent finding in science that when a human can't look you straight in the eye that they are lying or hiding something. Compare that to an interview with Wallace Spearman. A very good sprinter, but certainly not a world beater freak, and yet he can look the interviewer and camera straight in the eye.

Bolt

http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/235252-athletissima-2009-lausanne/192125-usain-bolt-up-close-lausanne-super-grand-prix

Spearmon

http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?do=view&video_id=14366

Now obviously people are going to look away from time to time in an interview, particularly when they are formulating a thought or response but the difference between that and dodging eye contact is very clear.

lol, good point^^^, not completely reliable though!

And what time of the year would that be, considering that any top ranked track athlete is subject to random out-of-competition drug testing year round? As long as these guys are world ranked, they are subject to someone knocking at their door at any possible time. The Americans need to identify one hour out of every day of the year where they will make themselves available to testers. And then others, like Tyson Gay and Bryan Clay, volunteered for additional testing in order to make it easier to discern changes in their chemistry. I understand how that may sound coming from your background.I don't skim off the top at work. Do you?

Mutation wrote:

on the runs wrote:

And that's based on your years of working with sprinters as they made their rounds through various Olympics and World Championships?

I base that off my experience with roids. It is much easier to cheat with them. You take them in cycles. You can cycle at points in the season where you will not be tested. Build the muscle, repair the body, train hard. You do not have to have them in your system at the time of competition to benefit.

Now for EPO I believe you actually need it in your system at the time of the race for the full benefit.

You must be that bloke in the TV series - Lie to Me.

Let’s assume Bolt’s on drugs for a moment.

Now he’s clearly not sophisticated enough to seek out and absorb advanced quality drugs in isolation.

So presumably, the coach would have to be involved.

Now were I a coach of a national hero in Jamaica - would I DARE take the merest chance of doing something that I know perfectly well - could cost me my very life in the resulting outrage in the country were the drug taking exposed ?

Jamaica is a violent country, and any coach would know, he and his family would have to get out quick - and where would he go?

I certainly wouldn’t give Bolt anything stronger than Lucazade.