5k pr vs. mileage

I know a high school sophomore who ran 15:25 (converted from 3 miles) for xc on only 30-40 mpw. He can't run an 800 to save his life so its not as though hes relying on speed...pure aerobic machine. ran 15:29 as a freshman, though, so didn't improve a ton. Once ran 15:14 3miles on 0 running-specific training for a month (he swam a lot and biked moderately). Crazy talented kid.

My point? A lot of this relies on talent.

100-120 in training phases depending on season.

13:4x.

The key is not doing high mileage, but rather doing high mileage consistently. 100 mile weeks mean nothing if your taking a week or two off all the time from minor injuries.

runner39 wrote: if your coach agrees to the amount of volume you are doing for the level I would highly question their creditials, if you have no coach then please get one

do yourself a favor and drop your mileage then let yourself develop before running 80 miles/week, at the rate you are going to break 15:30 you will be running 120/week and this will only hurt you, there is no way someone at your level needs to be running more than 50 miles / week, this holy grail mentality of 15-17 min 5k runners doing 80+ miles/week just doesn't make sense

Can you explain this point further, runner39? How is it that running 80mpw would impede one's development as a runner?

runner39: He said a 16:23 split for 5k in an 8k race, which is 26:12 pace and really not that slow. If you think 80 mpw is too much for someone running 26's, you know absolutely nothing about distance running.

Yesssssss Duuuude!

At 33 mpw, I ran 19:50.

At 40 mpw (this October), I ran 19:44. Seems like I'm hitting a plateau consistent with my modest level of skill.

"Your stats & time progression sound eerily like mine. I restarted at 45.

Keep up with 40-45 mpw for another couple of years. At 50, this spring, I ran 19:29. Then 19:33 a few weeks ago. I'm shooting for 19:15 next year or the year after."

Thanks for your post and advice.

Does it look like I've hit a plateau? An improvement of 6 seconds for a 20% increase in mileage seems hardly worth it.

Ticktock wrote:

runner39: He said a 16:23 split for 5k in an 8k race, which is 26:12 pace and really not that slow. If you think 80 mpw is too much for someone running 26's, you know absolutely nothing about distance running.

there is no way someone needs to run 80/week to be a 26:12 8k runner, my guess is one could run the same time on 50 /week, just don't buy into the theory of lets run 80-100/week and someday I will be a sub14 min 5k'er

if my memory serves me right I recall Mark Wetmore stating in RWTB (the Lear book) that goucher could run 50ish/week and be a 15min 5k'er but to get elite level (sub 13:30ish) he needed 90-100/week, what I am trying to say is all these 16-17 min 5k'ers on here believing that they need to run 80-100/week to get to sub 15 is rubbish, ya they can get to sub 15 on 100/week but where do they go from there 120-130/week to run sub14, overkill IMHO

Yeah you're right. Everyone who isn't already good shouldn't even bother. Think about what you're saying. If we were to run 50 mpw we'd be bad. You admit yourself we'd run decent times with higher mileage. So why wouldn't we run higher mileage?

you do realize decreasing his 5k PR is not going to be directly proportional to increased mileage. just because hes doing 80 miles a week and has run 16:23 doesn't mean he has to do 40 more miles per week to run 15:30. thats the worst logic i've ever heard. a lot of it has to do with what KIND of training hes doing or what phase hes in.

not that i know him personally, but maybe 16:23 is a very high level for his natural ability so 80 miles per week is what it takes to get him there. its not like all people who can only run 17:00 ability wise should run 40 miles a week because they aren't as good. if they can physically handle building mileage its still best to train the best you can. there is no direct correlation that says you have to be good to do mileage.

If you are getting hurt on more than 30 mpw and you still want to improve your time you need to do a bunch of cross training. Plyometrics, lifting, water running, cycling. Also, be realistic with your goals. You aren't going to improve overnight. The best way to get a PR is to have a long period of consistent, uninterrupted training, no matter how many miles.

btw, 14:40, 80-90mpw

40 MPW: 17:14

60 MPW: 16:16

65 MPW: 15:54

75 MPW: 15:38

85 MPW: ????? (this year)

Freud wrote:

you do realize decreasing his 5k PR is not going to be directly proportional to increased mileage. just because hes doing 80 miles a week and has run 16:23 doesn't mean he has to do 40 more miles per week to run 15:30. thats the worst logic i've ever heard. a lot of it has to do with what KIND of training hes doing or what phase hes in.

not that i know him personally, but maybe 16:23 is a very high level for his natural ability so 80 miles per week is what it takes to get him there. its not like all people who can only run 17:00 ability wise should run 40 miles a week because they aren't as good. if they can physically handle building mileage its still best to train the best you can. there is no direct correlation that says you have to be good to do mileage.

ok why would you run more mileage than you need to just to tell everyone that you run 80 miles/week, doesn't make sense, you are definitely correct it has to do with what kind of training he is doing and what phase not about the overall volume, I willing to say that take any 17 min 5ker and give him/her the proper workouts with weekly mileage around 40-50 and they will progress to sub 16min 5kers, this increase the mileage to 80+ is not the holy grail to improvement, to improve race times one must be able to handle the workouts and recover, a gradual increase in mileage over years of training will produce the optimal results, I am all for doing higher mileage but do it when you ready

100 mpw

14:12

If you are getting injured on 35 miles a week there is a serious problem...biomechanics, training, surface, something big that can be easily addressed.

You don't need to run 100mpw, or even 70, in fact if your goal is a 5k you probably shouldn't worry about getting anywhere near that mileage. If you could run 50-60 with a long run and 2-3 workout days, the rest easy days, you would most likely be running in the 16's within a couple months.

Figure out why you are getting injured on such low mileage and fix it.

Is running not about pushing your personal limits. Not everyone can run 40-50 miles a week and run 16:30. Bravo, to whoever ran that 16:23, keep up the miles. Don't let retards like runner39 tell you otherwise. If you enjoy high mileage keep it going bro.

Runner38 wrote:

Is running not about pushing your personal limits. Not everyone can run 40-50 miles a week and run 16:30. Bravo, to whoever ran that 16:23, keep up the miles. Don't let retards like runner39 tell you otherwise. If you enjoy high mileage keep it going bro.

probably a good idea that you go back to school and work on your language skills

65 mpw

14:50

please read the following:

http://dailynews.runnersworld.com/2008/12/a-brief-chat--5.html

Olinger in high school, 9:26 and 4:21 off 20-25 miles/week, maybe low but a good example to follow for high schooler's and the 16-17 min 5ker's, don't overload yourself with mileage until your ready

and ya the majority of able body people(meaning somewhat athletic) can run low 16's in the 5k off 40 miles/week, develop gradually and increase workload gradually, I am certainly not putting parameters on what your 5k time is in relation to how much mileage one does, to each his own but I guarantee a 17min 5ker can develop into a mid 15min 5ker with 40-50 miles/week and the right workouts

It's all about coaching. I agree with runner39. However, I do think that for anyone to reach their very highest potential (above 5-8K) you need to be in the 80mpw and up.