IAAF trying to muzzle Lagat?

This talk of validity of the EPO test is interesting fodder, but what will really be instructive is if Bernard Lagat or Yegorova ever come close to their previous world-beating performances... If not, I will remain very suspicious that they indeed did use rEPO.

matter, thats a very weak argument, it will prove no such thing.

They've both been ostracized, so it's highly unlikely either of them, or anyone, would have the same enthusiam, energy, dedication, motivation, and love of the sport, competition and competing they had before such false actions were taken against them.

There are other ways to be appreciated and enjoy one's life.

At the least we can leave people alone and allow them to train and compete.

It's either a venue to support each other attaining the highest levels of our capabilities, or a war of destroying any ambitions we have left, to the benefit only of those controlling the drug outputs, tests, and invalidated choices of excluson.

I would hope most reasonable people would choose the former and stand up for this.

JonnyO wrote:

matter, thats a very weak argument, it will prove no such thing.

I didn't say I was "proving" anything... I said I would be suspicious.

Learn to read little man.

matter,

I'm quite a big man actually, in size and in spirit. That's why I defend the little man.

your suspicious mind doesn't need any proof to remain suspicious.

without proof either way, please dont speculate that Lagat is guilty. let him be innocent until proven guilty.

I dont know about Yegorova, but Lagat may well fade into insignificance due to depression and loss of morale, from all the trouble this fiasco has caused. This will not prove he is guilty.

matter wrote:

This talk of validity of the EPO test is interesting fodder, but what will really be instructive is if Bernard Lagat or Yegorova ever come close to their previous world-beating performances... If not, I will remain very suspicious that they indeed did use rEPO.

Would you have been suspicious of OY and BL if the test had never existed, i.e., based solely on their performances (none of which have been Beamonesque, by the way)? I don't recall anyone saying they were suspicious of their success before the bogus test results were announced.

I think it's safe to say that if the test is unreliable, it should never have been used.

Drew Poulin wrote:

The USA Today story linked from the front page of Letsrun today indicates that the IAAF is really starting to sweat the Lagat case. Maybe they realize they've been foisting an unvalidated test on unsuspecting athletes for at least 2 years (since the Yegorova fiasco), and now they're worried that the world will found out.

For T&F, this may be bigger than the THG story. The credibility of the IAAF itself is on the line.

It's the other way around. They let the guilty jackass off, probably with some kind of warning. The IAAF hardly needs another mess on it's table, with the BALCO circus going on in the US. If the whole truth about drugs and E. Africans were to get out, they feel the sport would probably die. So, Temp and Bernie were let off, and the matter was no doubt supposed to die off quietly. But no, seeing how Templeton is a greedy, egomaniacal criminal, and Lagat is fully aware that his competitors now know the reason he's able to run under 3:33, the guilty pair had to start warbling about how innocent runners could be slammed by a faulty test, etc. The IAAF, between a rock and a hard place, still can't let these clowns pull this crap, so they're probably letting these snippets out as a type of warning to Temp and his drugged horse.

dunes runner wrote:

This thread is about the legitimacy of the protocol.

Not racism.

If you want all blacks banned just start another thread and say that.

Otherwise focus on the issue, and leave your personal attacks out of it.

Where did they guy mention blacks? The only person who should be banned is dunes runner.

No matter what Lagat does, the issue will always hang over his head. RIghtfully so. He's a guilty as dunes' hero, Regina.

This is idiocy, the IAAF/WADA has the embarassment of an inadequately tested protocol on their hands and they're trying to bully critics into silence, it's the same MO they've used before.

Jared T. wrote:

dunes runner wrote:

This thread is about the legitimacy of the protocol.

Not racism.

If you want all blacks banned just start another thread and say that.

Otherwise focus on the issue, and leave your personal attacks out of it.

Where did they guy mention blacks? The only person who should be banned is dunes runner.

No matter what Lagat does, the issue will always hang over his head. RIghtfully so. He's a guilty as dunes' hero, Regina.

Jared T, you amaze me with your logic, you are a genius.

we dont need drug tests, just ask Jared T

The IAAF know that Lagat's team has a clear case, but also know that admitting the EPO test in invalid would be a greater problem. So yes, they are stuck. However, they knew that this day would come soon, which is why WADA has been spending millions of dollars trying to create a better EPO test. The IAAF and WADA have tried to bully Lagat around, but he is not they type to sit and let it happen. Lagat's representatives merely want the IAAF to admit they made a mistake, and Lagat never did anything wrong. Also, they want everyone out there to know that this test that may ruin an athlete's career, is not valid and shouldn't be used.

If Lagat were guilty, he would just keep qiuet after the B sample and be glad that he got away. However, he knows he didn't do anything wrong, so why should he accept the lame excuse the IAAF gave? Lagat really had nothing to lose because the IAAF cannot come back and say he is guilty, knowing that all the representatives present at the B sample agreed he was clean. The IAAF cannot do anything to Lagat, so their best way of trying to put an end to this is by scaring Lagat's agent of HIS career. You see the IAAF wants this story to go away because they know they are in trouble.

They should have thought about that before they used this invalid test to ruin people's careers!

JonnyO wrote:

we dont need drug tests, just ask Jared T

Or how about this: We do away with drug testing completely and simply banish athletes who improve more than x% from their previous best.

This is a perfectly reasonable approach, since it's a widely known fact that athletes who suddenly improve a lot are cheating. And think of all the money we'd save by not having to run those expensive tests.

I like it.

IAAF is dirty wrote: The IAAF cannot do anything to Lagat, so their best way of trying to put an end to this is by scaring Lagat's agent of HIS career. . .

They should have thought about that before they used this invalid test to ruin people's careers!

The only thing I might add is that not only is the IAAF threatening BL's agent, they are threatening BL himself with the "reinstated on technicality" designation. The same thing happened to Olga Yegorova. As a result, credulous journalists all over the planet repeated ad nauseum that she was let off on a "technicality," and her reputation has been tainted by that rap ever since.

Bernard is absolutely right in doing everything in his power prevent that. I hope he will continue to insist that he be *completely* exonerated of any wrongdoing (none of this "technicality" BS) and that the blame for this fiasco be placed firmly where it belongs -- with the IAAF.

IAAF is dirty wrote:

If Lagat were guilty, he would just keep qiuet after the B sample and be glad that he got away. However, he knows he didn't do anything wrong, so why should he accept the lame excuse the IAAF gave? Lagat really had nothing to lose because the IAAF cannot come back and say he is guilty, knowing that all the representatives present at the B sample agreed he was clean. The IAAF cannot do anything to Lagat, so their best way of trying to put an end to this is by scaring Lagat's agent of HIS career. You see the IAAF wants this story to go away because they know they are in trouble.

He's just like almost every other athlete that's been caught. They scream their innocence from the rooftops. The crying is for the public's benefit. How many of those caught have admitted drug use? Chambers? Maybe a couple of others? Get real. All the Kenyan sycophants do is attack those who post something they don't like. You can't attack their ideas or logic, so you'll resort to name calling. Jared T is very clear in his post. The responses haven't been. The earlier poster was right. If Lagat were an American or European, everyone would be all over him. The IAAF probably thought it would end up forgotten, at least by most of the public. The childish behavior of Templeton and Lagat has ended up working them into a corner, not the IAAF.

It does the IAAF no good to have crappy tests that don't work. However, they probably feel that it does the sport some good in the short run to let some athletes go with an under the table warning and a public proclamation of innocence or a mistake. The IAAF was probably more angry at the folks who caught Lagat in the first place, than they were at yet another guilty athlete. In this case, Templeton and Lagat punched the gift horse in the mouth.

It's funny that so many people use straw man arguments to keep attention away from the real issues. Get rid of athletes who improve a certain amount? Sure, that's really intelligent. Very funny. It would be interesting to see how the same folks would wail if Lunn dropped to 3:27 or so in the next two years. Or someone like Heshko, who drops a second, second and a half, and jealous people or people with an agenda scream drugs. But then Lagat, who couldn't shine the shoes of a runner like Goucher in college enjoys dramatic, and very sudden improvements in his 1500 meter times. Along the lines of what is seen in high schoolers, and the faithful say nothing. Maybe it was clean. Maybe it wasn't. It's a good bet it wasn't. Based on Lagat's 800 PR that someone brought up earlier, he's a good responder to "ergogenic" aids, eh? Being E. African seems to make him immune to the criticism or scrutiny that athletes from elsewhere would endure from certain corners, no doubt, as everyone knows no African is capable of dishonest or duplicitous behavior.

The argument will continue on and on. Doesn't matter. There's nothing that anyone on these boards can do about doped up runners standing on the podiums all over the circuit. The IAAF dropped the ball a long time ago. Trying to slowly work itself out of corner isn't going to work.

Bin Hex, I like you, you're funny

#1- A valid EPO protocol has not been established;

#2- Therefore there is NO valid EPO test;

#3- Because both the protocol and the testing procedures are not valid, it is not possible to justifyably determine ANY top runner of being on medical EPO;

#4- Because this information is readily available, any runner accused of being on medical EPO most certainly has just cause for legal action against such players as have falsely accused them, in particular as would affect their reputations and careers in athletics.

Bin Hex wrote:

. . . You can't attack their ideas or logic, so you'll resort to name calling. . .

Well, it looks like this thread is in its death throes, so I'm signing off.

Stay tuned, though. This is going to get interesting.

JonnyO wrote:

Bin Hex, I like you, you're funny

So are you, Drew and dunes. The unintentional humor I've seen in most of the posts defending Lagat gave me the energy to drop in two cents. : )

has he gone, what a relief, that guy Drew Poulin, he makes all that stuff up you know. Its his job.

yep, gets paid a ton 'o money fer it too. They only pay me half of what he gets.

now that I've finally blown the whistle I'm gonna quit and work for the other side.