Honest question: why is everyone so sure Ramzi is doping?

Bo Diddley wrote:

In 2001 he ran 3:40. In 2003 he ran 3:39. In 2004 he ran 3:30.25. He was not young when he ran these times--he was 21 in 2001.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/athletes/newsid=35223.html

Imagine if you will, a junior placing fifth at the NCAA 1500 then winning the world championships next year. That progression raises eyebrows. And a Bahraini team willing to purchase Ramzi's nationality would have few scruples about doing whatever it takes to get the most out of their investment (that's why Ramzi changed nationalities besides the need to get out from under El G's shadow).

To be honest, after reading that bio, it's clear that he did not come out of nowhere. He won silver at the 1999 African Junior Championships, which is no small feat. These types of races tend to be tactical, and they are often held at altitude, so you can't place too much stock in the time - 3:47. (As a point of reference, last year's 1500 winner, Cornelius Ndiwa, ran 3:46 to win the Championships, but ran a 3:35.10 only a few weeks before.) The thing that stands out is his place, and a silver in a middle distance event at the African Junior Championships is an indictator of a major talent.

So while his "official" pr was still only 3:44 as of 2002, even 3 even years earlier he was probably much faster. Probably 3:35-3:38 shape. You run that as a 19 year old, and it's not as crazy for you to run 3:30 at age 24.

Good points. His results in championship races and his problems with injuries probably do indicate that he was capable of much faster than 3:39 in a fast, rabbited race by 2003 or earlier.

I just don't like the pushing with 400m to go (of his own countryman - well, representing the same country anyways). I don't like him cutting off the same runner with 200m to go. Poor guy faded to like 9th, probably partly a result of Ramzi's antics. He even clipped the eventual silver medalist about 800m in. And if I'm not mistaken, he was in the middle of a lot of pushing in the semifinals as well.

Yes, you gotta do what you gotta do to win, but there is a degree of etiquette one should keep on the track - especially the olympic scene - and he was the prime example of not doing that..

grassy knoll wrote:

Everyone is suspicious, right?

Cacho 1988-1989 (11.08 sec. improvement)

Silva 1997-1998 (10.6)

Ngeny 1996-1997 (9.53)

Ramzi 2003-2004 (9.05)

Lagat 1997-1998 (6.71)

Willis 2002-2003 (6.28)

Morceli 1989-1990 (5.27)

Kiprop 2007-2008 (3.8)

El G 1994-1995 (2.55)

I wouldn't be shocked if this whole lost was dirty, except maybe for Willis

dmb wrote:

I wouldn't be shocked if this whole lost was dirty, except maybe for Willis

You mean, everyone except the English speaking white guy.

Intergalactic wrote:

How much time did he drop in a year? Is it because he only runs well at championship meets? Does he associate with anyone shady? I am genuinely curious, because while it is strange that he dominated 05 worlds and now dominated the Olympic 1500 with little success in between, that's not nearly enough evidence to accuse someone of doping.

he is...

1. NOT American

and

2. NOT White

You have to know by now these boards are 99% white no talent hacks who can't come to grips with the fact that white american runners just can't compete with the rest of the world.

he is...

1. NOT American

and

2. NOT White

You have to know by now these boards are 99% white no talent hacks who can't come to grips with the fact that white american runners just can't compete with the rest of the world.

Add to this all the love for nick willis simply because he has american collegiate ties. Does he even have dual citizenship in the US? Putting willis name in huge font for a bronze medal, and the gold medal winner ramzi in small font in 2nd place. I mean wtf is that?

The fastest guy in the world almost always has a history that includes a spectacular progression. That's no big deal, IMO. Never running races between major championships is more suspicious.

I don't believe him. He stays quiet throughout the year then Suddenly drops a huge Muslim PR right when the olympic games come. I hear he's going for the double too

grassy knoll wrote:

Everyone is suspicious, right?

Cacho 1988-1989 (11.08 sec. improvement)

Silva 1997-1998 (10.6)

Ngeny 1996-1997 (9.53)

Ramzi 2003-2004 (9.05)

Lagat 1997-1998 (6.71)

Willis 2002-2003 (6.28)

Morceli 1989-1990 (5.27)

Kiprop 2007-2008 (3.8)

El G 1994-1995 (2.55)

WEBB: 2000-2001 (~6 sec)

OMG!! WEBB dOPPed! That's why he and Bernard cracked. That's why Mottram crumbled. That's why Phelps won 8 golds! AHHHHH!

Actually, no there is not. The idea is to train for a specific race or set of races. Race very little leading up to it and win.

grassy knoll wrote:

Everyone is suspicious, right?

Cacho 1988-1989 (11.08 sec. improvement)

Silva 1997-1998 (10.6)

Ngeny 1996-1997 (9.53)

Ramzi 2003-2004 (9.05)

Lagat 1997-1998 (6.71)

Willis 2002-2003 (6.28)

Morceli 1989-1990 (5.27)

Kiprop 2007-2008 (3.8)

El G 1994-1995 (2.55)

Improvement over the rest of the world:

Bob Beamon, October 18th, 1968, between 10:10 and 10:11 (55cm)

You're a f**kin idiot.

Based off of the front page, wejo and rojo are racists.

wowzers wrote:

Add to this all the love for nick willis simply because he has american collegiate ties. Does he even have dual citizenship in the US? Putting willis name in huge font for a bronze medal, and the gold medal winner ramzi in small font in 2nd place. I mean wtf is that?

Probably more readers are going to feel a connection to Willis since he went to Michigan and we've all seen him compete against the people we know a bunch of times. The average LR viewer can identify with him a little more than some Arab they only see on TV once every year or two. Would we expect New Zealand papers to plaster pictures of Ramzi and Kiprop all over the place and give a brief mention of Willis or the other way around? Plus it's a rare medal for a white guy that came through the US college system. Really rare. People expected Ramzi and Kiprop to medal but Willis? Some guy somewhere might tab him for a medal if they ran the race 100 times. His bronze was a shocker and a bigger story to most fans in English-speaking countries than Ramzi winning.

"Cacho 1988-1989 (11.08 sec. improvement)

Silva 1997-1998 (10.6)

Ngeny 1996-1997 (9.53)

Ramzi 2003-2004 (9.05)

Lagat 1997-1998 (6.71)

Willis 2002-2003 (6.28)

Morceli 1989-1990 (5.27)

Kiprop 2007-2008 (3.8)

El G 1994-1995 (2.55)"

- cacho- spanish in 90's. do i need to say more? doped. crap in nonchampionship years.

silva- can't comment. great speed. you could put the little fella in your pocket

ngeny- fell off the face of the earth after 2-3 good years, including taking down coe's 1k

ramzi- seriously? boulami's group. moroccan. read between the lines.

lagat- positive A test on epo. was B negative or INCONCLUSIVE?

willis- not fast enough to be out of the realm of nondrugged possible.

morceli- dude, come on. i love the guy as much as anyone else. i'd have to be a fool to think he was pharmaceurtically charged. what a joy to watch though!

el G- see morceli above

kiprop- don't know enough to comment

because he looks like he could be a terrorist who hates the USA.

goosey wrote:

racists.

big deal. that's a mote in the eye, not a plank. it's not even worth mentioning, let alone finger pointing. we might as well say "goosey is a faultfinder."

Wind and altitude had no effect on that improvement obviously....

sg awE wrote:

Improvement over the rest of the world:

Bob Beamon, October 18th, 1968, between 10:10 and 10:11 (55cm)

You're a f**kin idiot.