Jim Spivey and 5k training

Jim

You trained in the chicago area which is flat, did you do any hill work?

js,

My first visit to LR for a while. Seeing these workouts brings back some memories. I would be happy to go back to my training logs if you need info/data for your website.

Thanks for being such a great resource.

dsh

“Discipline is not a nasty word.”

“The Ten Commandments were not a suggestion.”

Pat Riley, former coach of the World Champion LA Lakers / Miami Heat

6.19 R 50-60 m's f

.20 F 35-44 m’s f

.21 S 15 m’s wu vf, 4 rs

2x2 miles m’s f+ (5)

run at 5:32-5:44 pace per mile

note the 5 m's vf jog inbetween

read follow up e-mail to lactic acid/5 m's

mile wd

.22 S 80 m's vf - go slow, just get the m's in

.23 M 45 m's f

.24 T 42-55 m’s f

.25 W 15 m’s wu vf, 6x100

3 sets if 3x400(200)[400]

1st set ffg 2nd set fgf 3rd set gff

f=:77-79 g=:71-73 6x100, mile wd

.26 R 15 m's wu vf, then 25 m's at DMP pace -

5:58-6:15 pace. This should not be a hard

pace, but more difficult due to .25 workout

Should feel better after the 2 mile split :)

.27 F 35-42 m’s f

.28 S 15 m’s wu vf, 4 rs

16x :45 f (1)

run 4f, 2g, 3f, 2g, 3f, 2g

mile wd

.29 S 85 m's vf

.30 M nt

7.1 T 42-50 m’s f

.2 W Move workout to Tuesday if racing 7.4

15 m’s wu vf, 6x100

3x200 f (100)[400]

1x400, g first 200, f last 200 (400)

2x150 bu (150) 6x100, mile wd

If not racing on the 4th, then 15 m’s wu vf, 6x100

5x200 f (100)[400]

4x250 gfgf (150)[400]

5x200 fgfg (100)[400]

4x250 vf (150)

6x100, 1/2 mile wd

tired

.3 R 20 m’s f, 6x100 if racing tomorrow

otherwise - 50 m's vf

.4 F race

otherwise: 40 m's

.5 S Long run day - 95m's vf

.6 S 4-5 miles f

.7 M 15 m's wu vf, 4 rs

5 miles 5:54-6:04 pace

mile wd

.8 T 43-52 m’s f

.9 W 35-40 m’s f

.10 R 15 m’s wu vf, 6x100–cruise, comfortable interval day

2x1000 vf (300)[400] 3:26-3:35 pace

1x800 vf (300) 2:44-2:50

1x1000 [400]

4x150 vf (50)

.11 F 35-42 m’s f

.12 S 1.5 miles wu, 4 rs

2x2 miles at 5:32-5:50 pace (5)

mile wd

.13 S 75 m's vf

.14 M 15 m's wu vf, 6x100

this was one of Daniel Hill's (AUS)favorite workouts

5x200 f (100)[400] can run these on the grass

1x600 g (400) :71-73 @ 400

4x200 f (100)[400]

1x600 g (400)

3, 4 or 5x200 f (100)again, can run on soft surfaces

4x100

mile wd

.15 T 45-52 m’s f

.16 W 35-42 m’s f

.17 R 15 m’s wu vf, 6x100

4 x mile (400) 5:50-6:00

run the pace listed

mile wd

“If you have a positive attitude and constantly strive to give your best effort, eventually you will overcome your immediate problems and find you are ready for greater challenges.” -Pat Riley

Lactic Acid

When I ran on the treadmill for Dr. Dave in Atlanta, I would run to the point of exhaustion. The test occured yearly from 1989-1997, roughly May 1. When I had enough, I would jump off, and Dr. Martin would start the stopwatch. At exactly 5 m's from when I jumped off, he would take my blood.

While I was running, he was measuring all sorts of data through the EKG on my back and what I exhaled into a tube that fed into a computer. Lactic acid was one of the measurements he was taking.

However, he showed me while I ran at various paces, my lactic acid would stay below 100%. When I started to go up the hill, 2% increase every 2 minutes, of course everything went up (pulse, lactic)... OK, maybe brain cells went down. I would normally jump off the treadmill, and my lactic acid would be in the 107-115% range. Thus, I had been running for a short period of time above 100%, running at a pace up the hill where my body required more oxygen than what it could take in. The choices at this point are either to slow down, stop, or continue. You can't slow down on a treadmill, and I wanted to run as long as I could.

I find it interesting that in 1991 and 1993, my winter training (December-March), the values were within a similar range. Yet, when it was a warmer winter, I would train faster in the winter months, thus working on my "speed" without knowing it, and raising my lactic acid tolerance. Cold winter - I would be plowing through intervals at a slower pace - hard to run in the cold fast. In '91 and '93, I could only run for 40 seconds once I hit 100%. I did run for a long time on the treadmill, but not above 100%. In those years in the sumemr, I ran 3:49.83 for the mile and was 5th in the World Championships 1500m in '93. In 1992, my lactic acid length was 4 minutes (!). My volume of oxygen was terrible (for me) at 73, where at most times I was in the low 80's. As the Walking Brain Dr. D said: "You have a small engine with 6 gears. Last year ('91) you had a large engine with 2 gears." How can you train to be able to run 4 m's above 100%? I did not plan to do this.

Dr. D said that your lactic acid peaks 5 m's after a hard interal, like a treadmill test. "Jim, if you know this, how do you incorporate it into your training?" Mike Durkin always had me run 2x800 fast when I was getting ready to peak, with 2 laps slow inbetween. If I ran at 2:30 pace for 400 on the recovery .... it was 5 m's. From that point on, I ran exactly 5 m's between 800's. If I could run 2 under 1:54.5, I knew I could run under 3:50 for the mile.

I know their are many elites that can run 2x800 under 1:54 - but I would say the way I trained was not on speed, but a lot of intervals, slower, going up to 9-11k per workout. It was more rhythm and how I felt, not just the clocked time for an 800. Do you float around the track? Or, do you have to press. In 1988, I floated 1:52 and 1:51, and ran 3:31.01 about 3 weeks later (my PR for 1500m).

Carry this out to longer intervals, and you add the 2x2mile (5). Next steps are 2x2.5 miles and 2x3 miles. Then, I would run in the fall in my build up stage,3x2 miles (800). Do this with a 2 mile wu run and mile wd, and you get a 10 mile run. It sounds easy, even when I type 6 m's per mile pace, but kicked my rear later in the day, and usually needed a nap.

Dr D helped coach Steve Spense in his lead up to the 91 Marathon at the Worlds in Tokyo. He said he had him run 2x4 miles (5) at race pace. He ran the first one in the heat on the streets of Tokyo, then could not hit the pace for the 2nd one due to the humidity. They talked about pace, and decided on X. That would put him in last for the first 10k. Maybe through 15k? If you remember watching the TV, he was in last, and ended up with the Bronze. Now, I am sure that 98% of Steve's training I am missing right now, as this is 1/365th in his prep to race - but we all have workouts that we point to that help us physically, and maybe more, mentally, in our preparation to have a great race.

So, to summarize: Finish a long interval. Pulse is 190, lactic acid 105%. 2 minutes later, pulse is 135, Lactic acid 135%. 5 mintues later, pulse is 115, Lactic 155-175%. You start your next interval, and tell yourself: "Ok, my breathing is fine, but I feel tired. The lactic acid is screaming through my body right now - so, this next interval will teach my body to run while it is tired." And off you go.

js

www.jsrc.us

Jim

what times would you run your longer intervals in, for example 2x2mile.Thanks for the information!

Jim, the human body doesn't produce lactic acid.

For the 2x2 miles, I would start in December: for example 1992-1993:

12.12 Saturday 2x13m 's - 13:08, 13:04 (5:15 pace)

12.26 Sat 10:47, then 3 miles instead of 2, 15:27

1.16 Sat 2x2.5 miles - 9:22 through 2 miels, 11:41

9:47-12:06

normally, I would start out at 5:20-30 pace, then work down to around 5:10 pace by January. Getting below 5 m pace (in the winter, with wind chills and snow) meant I was in good shape (sub 8:00 3k).

I ran 8:01 on Friday 2.5 and 7:55 in Fairfax on 2.7, a few weeks after the 1.16 workout.

js

From my follow-up letter from David Martin on 29 September 1992, page 2:

"Your blood lactic acid levels are quite interesting, particularly in view of more recent research suggesting how these data ought to be best interpreted. Several processes interplay, and I'm hoping I can explain the situation clearly without being too technical. When you are working at maximum capacity - near the end of your test - you would like to have the biggest metabolic engine possible. Metabolism is both aerobic and anaerobic. The bigger the aerobic part of your engine (seen by maximum oxygen consumpition, or Vo2 max), and the bigger the anaerobic part (the rate of lactic acid produciton by your working muscles), the faster you can race. Your anaerobic engine produces lactic acid as a result of metabolim; your aerobic engine produces carbon dioxide as a result of its metabolism. Both of these move out into the bloodstream from the working muscles. Carbon dioxide gets blown off in your expired air, so we can measure that volume (VC02-max, or max carbon dioxide volume) along with maximum oxygen consumption (V02 max) as an indication of your aerobic engine. You might think that we could also measure your blood lactic acid as an indication of your anaerobic engine. Using this logic, a high V02-max and high blood lactic acid value ought to indicate awesome fitness.

However, there is another element that adds a bit of complexity to comprehending the blood lactic acid value. THe greater your racing (anaerobic fitness), the greater is your ability for other tissues (such as the liver, kidney, and non-working muscles) to remove it from the bloodstream and use it as fuel. Thus, the measured blood lactic acid value reflects the combination of how much you are producing and how much is being taken up by other tissues at that same time. It has been suspected for some time that, among elite athletes in the 800m through the 5000m range, who are in peakrace fitness, their max blood lactic acid value post-treadmill-test may be considerably lower than a post-test value obtained during their more aerobic-emphasizing training periods, not because they are producing less of it but because they are metabloizing more. Note that your September '92 post treadmill test blood lactic acid value is your lowest ever. So little data has ever been accumulated fro melite athletes when thay are at absolute racing peaks that this hypothesis hasa been tested very little. We have more data than anyone, and it includes only Aragon, Scott, Coe, Byers, and now you. Quite consistently, all of you guys have shown this phenomenon, although we have only a dozen post-race-peak test values.

There's another questions that I haven't got answereed, and that is how the subtle de-emphasis of your aerobic training interplays with the greater emphasis on sharpening work, raw racing, and the stress of travel to change your over performance capabilities."

As you can read, the goal is to have a big engine, with lots of gears.

Please, when you see lactic acid or some form of the word in my postings, realize that I was a marketing major at Indiana University. Dr Dave called it "post-test blood lactic acid values or levels.

js

This is fantastic information!!! Keep it rolling as your schedule permits. Your taking time to provide insight and valuable training information is tremendous. Many Thanks!!

How does the training schedule look for you?

What would you change / need adjusting?

Will you be racing on the 4th of July?

js

Looks great. No 4th of July but will run a 1600 and a 3k on the 19th and 16th. Peak racing goals are late summer early fall.

Jim - Reading all of your postings I could find on the board, I've noticed your training reflected multiple paces throughout the week. A number of coaches have suggested staying out of the "junk zone", not quite recovery, and not quite threshold, which I'd equate to 80-85% MHR if using an HRM.

What is Dr. Dave Martin's philosophy and reasearch which indicates otherwise (and has obviously worked) that all paces/ efforts are used to "make the engine capable of all speeds". A good example of this is his DM pace runs.

If you've not seen the thread, one is posted regarding Tom Byers, his training, talent etc. Any good insight you can add I'm certain will be a great read.

Jim, great thread here and many thanks for taking time to contribute. If you happen to pick this up again, might you add your base phase, Nov - Jan leading up to your third olympic team. Curious if Mike and Ken kept the workouts very similar to your miler days or longer reps and more threshold work to enhance your VO2

Bump this thread!! Hopefully Jim picks this up.