Pat Porter...

what bullshit

it doesn't matter where you went to school. only 26% of american adults have a college degree -- it matters more that you finished and not where.

LBC wrote:

What was Adams State's training like under vigil? High mileage I'm assuming? I think I remember reading that they did mile repeats in a park somewhere in Alamosa almost every week.

LBC, during the XC season, Vigil had us run between 15-18 miles on Sunday. Mondays and Thursdays were intervals at Cole Park in Alamosa. On Monday, we ran 16x 700yds. on the grass. On Thursday, we ran 6x 1mile. Tuesdays were spent running 10 miles uphill near Rock Creek Campground. We'd go from 9,000' to 11,000' altitude.

On Wednesday's, we'd often run a 12 mile 'rabbit run', in which we would run single file and the last runner in line would surge to the front.

Fridays, an easy 10miles and strides, and race on most Saturdays.

Most of us would also run an easy 4-5 miles in the morning, 3 days/week.

What made Vigil's runners improve wasn't so much the intense training, but the daily meetings we had in room 101 at Plachy Hall. In those motivational talks, Vigil made a bunch of good runners believe they could be the best and could accomplish anything. These meetings were the secret to Vigil's success as a coach!

Colorado Stats,

Thanks for the great training profile. Did vigil keep the training similiar to this for the 5k and 10k guys when track season came around? Also, did Porter follow a similiar plan as a post-collegiate? Thanks again.

LBC wrote: Did vigil keep the training similiar to this for the 5k and 10k guys when track season came around? Also, did Porter follow a similiar plan as a post-collegiate?

Porter ALWAYS did the same workouts as the XC team after he graduated. I believe it was because of this, that he was so consistent for years and years.

In track, Coach had the 5 and 10k guys run together most of the time. Track workouts consisted of 16x 400m, and 5-6x 800m (or 400,800,1200,1600,800,400m ladder) weekly. Sometimes we would do 4x mile at the park instead of one of the track workouts.

Ok, I am probably giving away trade secrets now but here was the gig for the Vigil xc season in the early 80's:

Note: these are the afternoon workouts. We were expected to have daily morning runs of at least 5 miles, plus twice a week development training in the a.m. which was primarily plyometrics, weights, etc.

Monday: 16 one lappers at Cole park with approx. 100 meter jog recovery between each. A lap at cole part was around 700+ meters. We were expected to break 2:00 every time.

Tuesay: Mountain Run at Rock Creek...anywhere from 10-14 miles...ya just never knew...and it was all up

Wednesday: 10-12 mile road run...very often what we called 'Indian Runs" as the person in the back sprinted to the front. This often ended up near a 5 minute pace. We were never allowed to run slower than a 6 minute pace.

Thursday: Everyones favorite. Mile Repeats x6 with 3 minutes jog recovery. All repeats had to be under 5 minutes or coach sent you out on another 15 road run. Runners like Porter and Montoya (The scariest of them all) usually averaged around 4:20 or better (at 7500' mind you) Also until until '83 or so there were barracades to jump over.

Friday: Same as Wednesday...even if we raced the next day. Not until peaking time did we back off to something like 8 miles.

Saturday: The easist day: Race day: 5 mile warm up. 8k-12k XC race. 5 mile cool down.

Sunday: 90-120 minute run...min of 15 miles, often more

Repeat ;-)

PS: Sam Montoya was my room mate as well as one of my all time best training partners and friends. He still has a lion's heart and remains one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet. As far as I know and heard the majority of Adams runners and coaches, including Vigil consider him the most phenominal runner they ever came across. And certainily the most dangerous. If the cards had fallen a little differently his mark would have have been brighter than Pre's. They were/are much a like. But there was no one like Sam.

That was some cool shid. You guys sound like a bunch of fuggin' animals. Not many people can train like that anymore.

Hulst, any idea where I could see that photo of the ASC team running the course when they achieved the perfect score in 92? A really awesome photo

Why not? You guys are wimps.

"Runners like Porter and Montoya (The scariest of them all) usually averaged around 4:20 or better (at 7500' mind you) Also until until '83 or so there were barracades to jump over."

Sorry, but you are full of shit with this. Tell the truth, and don't embellish it. And if you don't know the exact numbers, don't just make them up. It discredits your entire post.

Perhaps the course is short, but he isn't the only one claiming that the mile repeats were done that fast. In "Running Tough" by Sandrock there is a run called "Alamosa Miles" detailing the exact same workout according to Vigil. I don't have the book handy, but I believe it says the repeats got as low as 4:15 or 4:18. These guys aren't "full of shit". Vigil's said the same thing, take a look at the book. Like I said, perhaps the course is short. Regardless, Porter's record speaks for itself and Montoya sounds like he was a guy who never fully exhibited his talents.

The miles were sea level miles, about 6-7 sec short. But in 1992 when adams prefected scored at nationals there was a group of 12 runners that ave under 4:25 and the top 9 under 4:20 for 6 times a mile with under 3 min recovery. then there was the all out mile where 6 guys went under 4 min and the top two went 3:51 and 3:52 respectivly at 7544 ft.

"then there was the all out mile where 6 guys went under 4 min and the top two went 3:51 and 3:52 respectivly at 7544 ft."

Also false, of course. These runners accomplished a lot, why do people feel the need to embellish their already impressive performances?

Nothing embellished here I assure you. Coach Vigil and a slew of runners, including visiting world class runners (Pablo Vigil, Tony Sandavol, and others) who would join us on occasion will testify to these kind of times as a weekly occurance. The numbers are documented in books, training journals, and even a couple articles in Runners World back in the eighties.

The course was not short by the way. Vigil was a stickler with the wheel and would get it down to the inch.

I do not know about the sub four minute miles alluded to in the time trials but I was there when Porter ran a 4:01 following a sub 9:00 2 mile about 30 minutes before. It was not uncommon during the peaking time trials to have several of the top runners around 4:05 -4:10 or so.

If you still think this kind of performance unlikely I encourage you to do one of the following. Ask Vigil or even coach Martin or even better..go train in Alamosa with the team for one XC season. I am confident there are still some studs approaching those kind of times though their training is not exactly the same we did, for good or ill. (A little of both actually) More than anything else... you spend enough time training in that place and the unique "chi" for lack of a better term will convince you .

Lastly, if you had been there each day as Coach Vigil prepared us for practice and heard his words and felt the spirit he created you would have no doubt what so ever.

Jason Hubbard, an Adams all-American who used to post here, reported that the mile repeats course was measured by Vigil to be shorter than a mile, but to "equate" with a mile run at sea level. He was very clear that it was NOT 1760 yards/1609 meters.

moshead, I don't doubt what you wrote, I'm saying that what a couple of the other posters wrote was embellished.

I would love to be in a running environment like that.

So what is it? Short mile repeats or accurately measured mile repeats. And why did Jason quit posting here? He also ran for West Point didn't he?

Colorado & Moshead,

What did you guys do in the off season? Did Vigil have you still doing some sort of speedwork 2x per week?

Did Porter ever say why did didn\'t move up to the marathon?

Thanks for the very interesting and informative posts.

Great info here. Vigil had a book out called "Running to the Top" which i bought at the 96 Trials in Atlanta. Green cover framing a shot of the five Adams State guys running together at Nats. Lots of motivational quotes from Vigil sprinkled throughout text. He doesn't outline the exact same training as we are seeing in this LR thread but does have somewhat similar stuff about 6x mile year 'round, etc. He also borrows from the Jarvis edited "Long Distance Training" T&F text for some periodization tables.