fauxducks wrote:
Hmmm I'd love to have a beer or three with you Jag1.
Drugs, particularly steroids 1) give you the will to train like an animal 2) allow you to recover from training like an animal such that someone can do this 7 days a week.
Haha, might enjoy a few today after my long run in frigid weather.:)
It's to be assumed the spectrum of benefits gained from taking drugs, but even if the top tier mid-distance runners of today are taking drugs, are they putting in that kind of training?
Forecast for the Marathon: A Cloud May Be Following Several Runners Around
After a summer of startling world records on the track, the autumn has brought searing times in the marathon. These days, however, rare speed is often followed across the finish line by widespread suspicion.
Fair or not, that is the case with Kenyan athletes coached by an Italian doctor named Gabriele Rosa. This year, his athletes have won marathons from Cancun to Paris, taking first and second in Berlin and Turin, Italy, and posting two of the year's three fastest times for the distance of 26 miles 385 yards. A month ago, runners from Rosa's group hit on the win, place and show tickets at the world half-marathon championships.
Fourteen international marathoners have run under 2 hours 8 minutes 24 seconds this year, and five of them are coached by Rosa and his two sons, Marco and Federico, who are also doctors.
I don't think that they are ... even with PEDs. Good point. Perhaps there isn't a need?
OMG! Serious!?!?
I don't think you're posting any new revelations. It's a bit of a stretch to assume that just because Jos has a shady past that it necessarily transfers to all his athletes. Would you call SFH and Sarah Schwald suspect because they were part of his group?
And, last I checked, Jos is not the exclusive manager of all Ethiopians. In fact, there are a couple really good ones that aren't part of his group (or Rosa's).
fauxducks wrote:
Take Kenyans for example - right now, people are dying in Kenya - people are getting hacked up left and right, houses are being burned to the ground, the government is believed to be corrupt by their own people - hence the violence, Athletics Kenya is universally known to be corrupt - yet for some asinine reason people think that their runners are above suspicion and would never touch drugs, yet "they" have no problem with hacking to death someone else - WTF is up with that?
I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread. But this statement is ridiculous. Do you know how much sacrifice it takes to get to that level?!?!
Give credit where do asshole. I hope you make to the elite level someday so we can accuse you of getting there unfairly, just because your good. They worked harder than you. That earned it.
Actually I don't, you don't deserve it. Besides even if you did use steroids, no amount of my hope (nor anything else) will ever get you there.
Blaze
Ok then explain all the unheralded talent pouring out of the rift valley region of kenya. The vast majority of them are not training under Rosa or Hermens.
What about Salazar's connection to EPO? I thought you said EPO was virtually undetectable - that would mean "Goucher et al" could easily get away with it, REGARDLESS OF YEAR-ROUND TESTING!
You're just throwing out names, trying to sound like you have undisputed knowledge that all africans are doping.
I find it hilarious that you defend American-born distance runners, but foreign-born Americans are supposedly exempt from testing and are therefore EPO users.
I would estimate that 25% of elites have used illegal substances. Anything more than this is outrageous. And there have definitely been some sub-13 min 5k guys who did it without drugs.
fauxducks, if you want to make a valid point, try not to have such an obviously biased agenda.
Blaze wrote:
fauxducks wrote:Take Kenyans for example - right now, people are dying in Kenya - people are getting hacked up left and right, houses are being burned to the ground, the government is believed to be corrupt by their own people - hence the violence, Athletics Kenya is universally known to be corrupt - yet for some asinine reason people think that their runners are above suspicion and would never touch drugs, yet "they" have no problem with hacking to death someone else - WTF is up with that?
I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread. But this statement is ridiculous. Do you know how much sacrifice it takes to get to that level?!?!
Give credit where do asshole. I hope you make to the elite level someday so we can accuse you of getting there unfairly, just because your good. They worked harder than you. That earned it.
Actually I don't, you don't deserve it. Besides even if you did use steroids, no amount of my hope (nor anything else) will ever get you there.
Blaze
"Due" not "do". "You're" not "your". You shouldn't start a sentence, much less a paragraph, with "Actually I....
So the German Athletics Federation's charges mean nothing to you? Please continue to live in your naive little world.
Jos doesn't just have a "shady past" he has AN INCREDIBLY SHADY PAST ... INVOLVING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS!
Obviously, you and several others are fanboys, so there is no arguing with you.
Why do you nitwits insist on saying "ALL"?You would base your 25% on what? Salazar and company work with Dr. Jim Stray-Gundersen, who happened to help write the drug testing protocols for EPO. Dr. Stray-Gundersen was also the "hired gun" expert witness for Tyler "parasitic twin excuse" Hamilton when he had DNA from two sources in "his" blood. Mr. Hamilton could still clear his name by merely submitting a new blood test to show to us that he still has 2 sources of DNA in his blood currently, but Mr. Hamilton will not do that, because he no longer has the mixed up blood of a team mate in his system.Obviously, I am not defending American born athletes - simply pointing out that they undergo more rigid testing. Also, your reading skills are very poor - there is no test that can reliable test for HGH. EPO can be picked up in a urine sample - within a few hours and up to a week. If you are a US athlete and you are tested 2 - 3 times per month then you would either 1) clean or 2) far more sophisticated in dodging the tests than NEVER BEING TESTED - except after there were no chance of being tested.Cheers!
fdhfgdghd wrote:
Ok then explain all the unheralded talent pouring out of the rift valley region of kenya. The vast majority of them are not training under Rosa or Hermens.
What about Salazar's connection to EPO? I thought you said EPO was virtually undetectable - that would mean "Goucher et al" could easily get away with it, REGARDLESS OF YEAR-ROUND TESTING!
You're just throwing out names, trying to sound like you have undisputed knowledge that all africans are doping.
I find it hilarious that you defend American-born distance runners, but foreign-born Americans are supposedly exempt from testing and are therefore EPO users.
I would estimate that 25% of elites have used illegal substances. Anything more than this is outrageous. And there have definitely been some sub-13 min 5k guys who did it without drugs.
fauxducks, if you want to make a valid point, try not to have such an obviously biased agenda.
last line ^ no chance of testing positive.
You think I don't know about Jos' background? I know what he did as an athlete, and I know all about the "incidents" that his athletes have had. I'm not ignorant. But I'm also not ignorant enough to think that it automatically extends to his whole roster.
Let me guess: someone on the "inside" gave you the real scoop on it, huh? Someone with real knowledge?
Look: just because there's a shady character (or VERY SHADY as you say) doesn't mean that EVERYONE that character works with is a cheat. It doesn't work that way.
because of their scientifically proven smaller brain?
2 WRs were set this past weekend so obviuosly everyone has learned from Lance Armstrong and others on how to evade detection.
Actually, three WRs. And I'm certain that at least one of them is legit.
ahh yes, another drug apologist. mobile9, if i am correct, you do this sort of thing every time someone chimes in regarding drugs. you too seem to be hung up on the likes of all and everyone.
please mobile9 tell us how it works. perhaps someone gave you an autograph, and therefore could not be a drug cheat - we have all heard that before. there is one chap on here who had dinner with some elites - and of course, he will defend them till his death, because he had dinner with them, despite their associations. they even said "drugs are bad" and "we hate drug users" - obviously, they are clean.
Hey Asshat, this is one of your quotes."Dirty athletes have dirty associations"
mobile9 wrote:
You think I don't know about Jos' background? I know what he did as an athlete, and I know all about the "incidents" that his athletes have had. I'm not ignorant. But I'm also not ignorant enough to think that it automatically extends to his whole roster.
Let me guess: someone on the "inside" gave you the real scoop on it, huh? Someone with real knowledge?
Look: just because there's a shady character (or VERY SHADY as you say) doesn't mean that EVERYONE that character works with is a cheat. It doesn't work that way.
Here, let me help you with this "No, Ben Johnson could not have run 9.79 clean"You are such a fool to consistently spout such nonsense!
mobile9 wrote:
Do you think that it was impossible that a guy like Ben Johnson could have run 9.79 clean? I don't know, but I can't say that he never could have.
That's true. But it's not absolute. Do you think that someone like Amy Mortimer is cheating for those reasons?
The Germans had a state run doping program.
The Chinese had an expertly organized doping program.
Today's doping is likely through individuals and their agents. There are less organized doping circles today.
Also, the steroids used back then are not easily found today. Good luck going out today and getting Winstrol without either getting caught by your federation or the Feds. Steroids were not put on the Controlled Substance Act until 1990.
Women are not breaking these drug tainted records because today's dopers do not have access to the same type of drugs.
Alan
You sound like you are 13 - one can excuse you for that. You can't help it you are sheltered little person who has no objectivity and has seen nothing of the world.But one cannot excuse you for being a sheltered little racist, ethnocentrist.
fauxducks wrote:
You are a naive fool. Sorry not necessarily a personal attack, but it is the truth. Not 100% are doping - but much, much higher than most here would like to admit.
Take Kenyans for example - right now, people are dying in Kenya - people are getting hacked up left and right, houses are being burned to the ground, the government is believed to be corrupt by their own people - hence the violence, Athletics Kenya is universally known to be corrupt - yet for some asinine reason people think that their runners are above suspicion and would never touch drugs, yet "they" have no problem with hacking to death someone else - WTF is up with that?
How 'bout all of those Africans training and racing in the United States, are they part of any formal drug testing? Nope! Do you think that someone from Ethiopia or Kenya is going to fly to Albuquerque, NM to do some random drug tests on their athletes? Sorry, it ain't happening. The folks at NYC and other major marathons must be pressured into not handing out money to athletes who are not on a year round drug testing regimen.
Sorry, but EPO is out of your system within days of initially taking it - but the effects last for months. Unless someone is caught jabbing a syringe into their arms labeled "Illegal Performance Enhancing HGH" - it is undetectable - despite some of the pre-Olympic scare mongering.