Will Solinsky be as good as Teg post-collegiately?

meas well wrote:

chet wrote:

Well, maybe in less than a million years.

On another note, congratulations to Matt Tegenkamp who is now the father of a baby boy...

He's still not on Tegs level until he wins US Championships, makes Olympic teams and finishes as high in the finals.

The 10K is a huge step in the right direction, but not a whole lot better (if) than 12:58. It just felt that way for so many white westerners, but ask the many E. Africans who have run under 27 off of relatively few attempts but are still banging on the door to 13.

Lets hope they both keep pushing the envelope with the rest of the P-town crew.

Solinsky IS on Tegenkamp's level. Are you really that stupid? Do you understand that Chris Solinsky ran 26:59? ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...They either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried. Wanjiru comes to mind. He could have run sub 13 the day he ran 26:41...Tell me you're joking.

I don't need to repeat myself, everything is in my original post. Wake up. Do the research if you need to.

chet wrote:

Solinsky IS on Tegenkamp's level. Are you really that stupid? Are you really that stupid? Do you understand that Chris Solinsky ran 26:59? ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...Tell me you're joking.

No joke:

Kemboi Nicholas QATSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 25/11/1983 Kericho

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

800 Metres 1:46.65 Liège 19/07/2006

1500 Metres 3:45.00 01/01/2001

3000 Metres 7:50.99 Doha 13/05/2005

5000 Metres 13:01.14 Zürich 15/08/2003

10,000 Metres 26:30.03 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

This one is half a minute under 27 and only 5 seconds under 13

Dinkesa Abebe ETHSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 06/03/1984 Ambo

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:40.00 London (CP) 26/07/2008

5000 Metres 12:55.58 Paris Saint-Denis 01/07/2005

10,000 Metres 26:30.74 Hengelo 29/05/2005

Ooops, heres another

Kogo Micah Kipkemboi KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 30/06/1986

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:38.67 Stockholm 07/08/2007

Two Miles 8:20.88 Linz 23/08/2005

5000 Metres 13:00.77 Stockholm 25/07/2006

10,000 Metres 26:35.63 Bruxelles 25/08/2006

And another who buried 27 but sneaks under 13

Koech Paul KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 25/06/1969

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

2000 Metres 5:01.92 Rieti 03/09/1997

3000 Metres 7:33.79 Monaco 16/08/1997

Two Miles 8:17.01 London 07/08/1999

5000 Metres 12:56.29 Zürich 13/08/1997

10,000 Metres 26:36.26 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

Him as well

Tadese Zersenay ERISex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 08/02/1982 Adi Bana

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:39.93 Doha 13/05/2005

Two Miles 8:19.34 Eugene, OR 10/06/2007

5000 Metres 12:59.27 Roma 14/07/2006

10,000 Metres 26:37.25 Bruxelles 25/08/2006

And yet another who slams 27 and slips under 13

Abdullah Ahmad Hassan QATSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 29/07/1981

Information

From KEN to QAT: August 12, 2003 He changed his name and surname from Albert Chepkurui to Adbullah Ahmad Hassan

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:43.01 Caorle 10/07/1999

5000 Metres 12:56.27 Oslo 27/06/2003

10,000 Metres 26:38.76 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

Another case of the same

Kiprop Boniface Toroitich UGASex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 58.00 1.62 12/10/1985 Kwirwot

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:36.95 London (CP) 26/07/2008

5000 Metres 12:57.11 Stockholm 25/07/2006

10,000 Metres 26:39.77 Bruxelles 26/08/2005

You already mentioned Wanjiru

Wanjiru Samuel Kamau KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 52.00 1.63 10/11/1986

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

1500 Metres 3:50.28 Nagasaki 30/07/2003

5000 Metres 13:12.40 Hiroshima 29/04/2005

10,000 Metres 26:41.75 Bruxelles 26/08/2005

One more you may have missed

Kamathi Charles Waweru KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 18/05/1978 Nyeri

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:41.89 Torino 06/06/2003

5000 Metres 13:02.51 Zürich 16/08/2002

10,000 Metres 26:51.49 Bruxelles 03/09/1999

Don't forget

Sigei William KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 57.00 1.78 11/10/1969 Kericho

Information

1 AFC 93; 2 Oslo 10,000 (behind Ondieki WR); 1 WXC 93 (Unbeaten at cross-country in 93); First noticed after beating John Ngugi in 1989 Kenyan 5000 champs

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:37.73 Monaco 07/08/1993

5000 Metres 13:06.15 Oslo 21/07/1995

10,000 Metres 26:52.23 Oslo 22/07/1994

How about

Korir John Cheruiyot KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 13/12/1981 Bomet

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:43.35 Torino 10/06/2000

5000 Metres 13:09.58 Zürich 11/08/2000

10,000 Metres 26:52.87 Bruxelles 30/08/2002

Keepin it real

Ndambiri Josphat Muchiri KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 54.00 1.70 12/02/1985 Kirinyaga

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

1500 Metres 3:38.72 Sapporo 07/07/2004

3000 Metres 7:42.98 Rieti 27/08/2006

5000 Metres 13:05.33 Tokyo 03/06/2005

10,000 Metres 26:57.36 Fukuroi 03/05/2009

But wait

Ondieki Yobes KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 55.00 1.68 21/02/1961 KISII, Kenya

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:34.18 Köln 16/08/1992

5000 Metres 13:01.82 Zürich 07/08/1991

10,000 Metres 26:58.38 Oslo 10/07/1993

Which brings us to

Solinsky Chris USASex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 05/12/1984

Information

NCAA Indoor Championships: 2006 (1st, 3000m)

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

1500 Metres 3:37.27 Oordegem 07/07/2007

One Mile 3:57.80 Madison, WI 06/05/2006

3000 Metres 7:36.90 Sheffield 15/07/2007

Two Miles 8:15.77 Eugene, OR 08/06/2008

5000 Metres 13:12.24 Heusden-Zolder 28/07/2007

10,000 Metres 26:59.60 Palo Alto, CA 01/05/2010

And just behind him under 27

Kipyego Bernard Kiprop KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 16/07/1986 Keiyo

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

3000 Metres 7:50.57 Liège (NX) 19/07/2006

5000 Metres 13:09.96 Oslo 29/07/2005

10,000 Metres 26:59.61 Bruxelles 14/09/2007

And the man just behind him

Mathathi Martin Irungu KENSex Weight Height Date of Birth Place of birth

M 49.00 1.67 25/12/1985

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

1500 Metres 3:38.57 Oita 30/09/2006

5000 Metres 13:03.84 Niigata 26/09/2004

10,000 Metres 26:59.88 Fukuroi 03/05/2009

So you were saying.......?

Rough guess, from the men I listed above, 12:58 lines up closer to 26:49. That's not even taking into account how many more opportunities there are to run 5K's in comparison with good 10Ks. Combine that with Tegs national and international performances and I think you'll get my point. I'm not ripping Solinsky, just your ignorance.

I really had no idea that you were as dumb as you are. Your examples mean NOTHING. I KNEW there were a few runners with sub 27 and no sub 13. SO WHAT? YOU REALLY ARE STUPID!

Daniel Komen 12:39, 27:38

Edwin Soi 12:52, 27:14

Joseph Ebuya 12:51 28:53

I could go on and on, but I would be getting bored, and it proves nothing.

PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE NOT THAT STUPID

THERE ARE WAY MORE RUNNERS WITH SUB 13 AND NO SUB 27 THAN THE CONVERSE. This too proves little.

Of course, there are more opportunities to run 5000s than 10000s. That doesn't explain the fact that you are stupid, and 12:58 does NOT correspond to 26:49. 26:49 is superior to 12:58. Solinsky's effort is as good as a sub 13...

You might be the dumbest poster I've encountered here.

You're so dumb that you think you can prove that Solinsky's sub 27 10,000 is not as good as a sub 13 5000 just because there are a few runners who have done the former without doing the latter.

So stupid it is frightening.

There are runners who have run sub 3:30 who have not run sub 13. This does NOT prove anything in relation to the two performances. What a moron...

"ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...They either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried. Wanjiru comes to mind. He could have run sub 13 the day he ran 26:41...Tell me you're joking."

-------------------------------------

You really are dense. What you said is above and it was clearly wrong. You do understand that there are FAR more fast 5K opportunities EVERY year than 10K right? You get that? The fact is the long list that I provided shows guys who either ran under 27 and not under 13 or buried 27 while sneaking under 13 and most of these guys have FAR MORE OPPORTUNITIES to race fast 5Ks.

Look, how many times has Solinsky fallen on his ass trying to break 13? Are you a complete idiot?

The point isn't that everyone who runs under 13 goes under 27 or vice versa, THE POINT IS you sure as hell don't have to be able to break 13 to run WAY the fudge under 27. The point has been clearly made with what I posted above and Solinsky is the stamp on that point.

Here is what you said once again:

"ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...They either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried. Wanjiru comes to mind. He could have run sub 13 the day he ran 26:41...Tell me you're joking."

And here again is 26:30 man Nicholas Kemboi:

5000 Metres

2009 13:33.68 Milano 25/06/2009

2006 13:41.27 Heusden-Zolder 22/07/2006

2005 13:10.36 Berlin 04/09/2005

2004 13:19.65 Stockholm 27/07/2004

2003 13:01.14 Zürich 15/08/2003

2001 13:26.36 Maia 14/07/2001

10,000 Metres

2003 26:30.03 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

Really? No good chances at 5K or never really tried? Should I continue or is your tail between your legs already?

How about 26:30 man Dinkesa Abebe?

5000 Metres

2009 13:08.63 Hengelo 01/06/2009

2008 13:12.22 Milano 02/07/2008

2006 13:13.40 New York City, NY 03/06/2006

2005 12:55.58 Paris Saint-Denis 01/07/2005

2004 13:23.85 Heusden-Zolder 31/07/2004

10,000 Metres

2005 26:30.74 Hengelo 29/05/2005

And I'm not even posting all their 5K's, just their fastest per year.

But surely Micah Kogo is just like all the others who "either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried."

Ohh, wait:

5000 Metres

2009 13:01.30 Berlin 14/06/2009

2008 13:03.71 Barcelona (O) 19/07/2008

2007 13:10.68 Lausanne 10/07/2007

2006 13:00.77 Stockholm 25/07/2006

2005 13:16.31 Lappeenranta 21/07/2005

10,000 Metres

2006 26:35.63 Bruxelles 25/08/2006

Our old buddy Paul Koech is one of those who was nearly half a lap under 27 minutes and snuck under 13, but that's just because he never tried at 5K:

5000 Metres

1999 13:01.72 Roma 07/07/1999

1998 13:02.61 Zürich 12/08/1998

1997 12:56.29 Zürich 13/08/1997

1996 13:00.22 Zürich 14/08/1996

10,000 Metres

1998 26:47.89 Bruxelles 28/08/1998

1997 26:36.26 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

And Tadesse surely never got in a good 5K else he'd have a mark more inline with his 26:37 right?

5000 Metres

2009 13:07.02 Málaga 27/06/2009

2006 12:59.27 Roma 14/07/2006

2005 13:12.23 Sevilla 04/06/2005

2004 13:13.74 Roma 02/07/2004

2003 13:05.57 Paris Saint-Denis 31/08/2003

Same goes for 26:38 man Abdullah Ahmad Hassan (AKA Albert Chepkurui)

5000 Metres 2010 13:18.97 Doha 14/05/2010

2009 13:15.20 Tanger 12/07/2009

2008 13:09.97 Zürich 29/08/2008

2007 14:08.66 Amman 29/07/2007

2005 13:27.61 Luzern 14/06/2005

2004 13:02.03 Stockholm 27/07/2004

2003 12:56.27 Oslo 27/06/2003

2002 13:12.22 Berlin 06/09/2002

2001 13:18.71 Zürich 17/08/2001

2000 12:59.90 Oslo 28/07/2000

1999 13:25.18 Rovereto 01/09/1999

10,000 Metres

2003 26:38.76 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

And then we have our boy Kiprop Boniface Toroitich who has run 26:39, but has run a whopping 1 second faster than Teg for 5K:

5000 Metres 2008 13:17.26 Ostrava 12/06/2008

2007 13:07.46 Roma 13/07/2007

2006 12:57.11 Stockholm 25/07/2006

2005 12:58.43 Roma 08/07/2005

2004 13:05.47 Berlin 12/09/2004

2003 13:16.21 Ostrava 12/06/2003

2002 13:55.4 01/01/2002

2001 13:48.6 Réduit 18/08/2001

10,000 Metres

2006 26:41.95 Bruxelles 25/08/2006

2005 26:39.77 Bruxelles 26/08/2005

So lets review.

I said: "He's still not on Tegs level until he wins US Championships, makes Olympic teams and finishes as high in the finals.

The 10K is a huge step in the right direction, but not a whole lot better (if) than 12:58. It just felt that way for so many white westerners, but ask the many E. Africans who have run under 27 off of relatively few attempts but are still banging on the door to 13."

To which you said: "Solinsky IS on Tegenkamp's level. Are you really that stupid? ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...They either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried. Tell me you're joking."

Followed by:

"You might be the dumbest poster I've encountered here."

And

"You're so dumb that you think you can prove that Solinsky's sub 27 10,000 is not as good as a sub 13 5000 just because there are a few runners who have done the former without doing the latter."

So I'll remind you of what I actually said, which was:

"He's still not on Tegs level until he wins US Championships, makes Olympic teams and finishes as high in the finals.

The 10K is a huge step in the right direction, but not a whole lot better (if) than 12:58. It just felt that way for so many white westerners, but ask the many E. Africans who have run under 27 off of relatively few attempts but are still banging on the door to 13."

As far as your stating that "ANY E. Africans who have run under 27 are not "banging on the door" trying to run sub 13...They either haven't been in the right race or haven't even really tried" let me point this out for you.

31 individuals have broken 27 minutes, 2 are known drug cheats so we have 29.

Of the 29, 16 were on the list I provided. That's 16/29 who have either broken 27 and not 13 or crushed 27 and not broken 13 or just snuck under. That's over half of the individuals who have run under 17.

Are you sure you're eligible to be calling others the dumbest on this board?

FYI, Teg is faster at 1500, 3K, 2M & 5K still and has not run a 10K. His national championship, international team and international performance record is still far superior to Chris's and I said "The 10K is a huge step in the right direction, but not a whole lot better (if) than 12:58."

That last point is the part which got you flipping out but somehow you ignore all the other facts slapping you in the face.

An interesting stat is that even though there are probably 5-10 X more quality 5K chances in a given year compared to 10K there are only 10 runners who have ever run under 12:50, but 12 runners who have run under 26:40.

That means with far fewer opportunities more people have crushed 27:00 than have crushed 13:00.

Then you have to factor how many more people actually attempt 5K then do 10K. At 5K you have guys that are 1500-5K types and 5K-10K typed all with numerous opportunities. At 10K you only have the 5K-10K types and the 10K-road types who would have very few opportunities at a fast 10K. I think 26:50 is about to become the new 27:00, and probably should have been already.

It's difficult to know where to begin. However, this began when you asserted that Solinsky is not on Teg's level. Well, Solinsky has proven that he is capable of running a 10,000 meters which is at least as good as Teg's best 5000. Now, does that mean that Solinsky is as good as Teg at 5000? That is unclear at this point, because Solinsky appears to have had a breakthrough in fitness, but in the past he has not been as good at 5000 as Teg. He may still be slower than Teg at 5000. That would not mean he is not on Teg's level. It may simply mean that the 10,000 is his best event. Surely you can understand this, and all your examples of sub 27, no sub 13 mean nothing. I am not asserting that Solinsky is a sub 13 5000 meter runner. I am asserting that he has proven he can run a 10,000 which is the same caliber as Teg's best 5000. What is so difficult to understand about this? Surely you can understand that Wilson Kipketer was a better runner than Alan Webb, even though Webb has the credentials to assert he was the better miler...

Gosh, I hope Solinsky has now proven to the obtuse that he IS on Teg's level...Most of us were able to understand this from the Stanford 10,000.

Give 'em Hell Chet...that was an enjoyable exchange to read though.

Booyaa!

chet wrote:

Gosh, I hope Solinsky has now proven to the obtuse that he IS on Teg's level...Most of us were able to understand this from the Stanford 10,000.

I think you're ignoring a key and original point from your adversary here. Solinsky has yet to do as well as Teg does in International Championship finals.

He also has yet to beat Teg with any kind of regularity.

Keep in mind that your using results from races that Teg is not in to compare against him. He's never been far behind Teg but you felt the need to say he wasn't on his level previously. Well if Teg comes out and beats him by a second or two mainly over the last 200 like he almost always does, then I guess he's still not on Tegs level.

He's a damn good runner who has run phenomenal times this year, but that doesn't mean he's "on Teg's level".

Last year was a WC year, Teg peaked for WC's and still magaged 12:58 after the fact in a race which was not as ideal as tonights.

I wouldn't split hairs but that's what you've done repeatedly on this thread so I guess I have to.

chet wrote:

Gosh, I hope Solinsky has now proven to the obtuse that he IS on Teg's level...Most of us were able to understand this from the Stanford 10,000.

Define "on Tegs level."

If you mean in the ball park, no question.

Love to see him running for a medal at a WC final though, then there is little dispute.

Teg is still better at 1500, 3000, and 2 mile and international championships. He had a faster 5K last year and simply hasn't raced yet this year.

Based on past performance, I think Teg would have moved up more today in relation to Chris but we shall see by end of summer.

Matthew Tegenkamp, age 28: 5000pb 12:58.56, no WC or OLY medals.

Chris Solinsky, age 26: 5000pb 12:56.66, 10,000pb 26:59.6 AR, no WC or OLY medals.

FOR THE FINAL TIME, SOLINSKY IS ON TEGENKAMPS'S LEVEL...

Teg was about .1 seconds away from being a bronze medalist, though... either that or if the race was 5 meters longer...

I don't know about solinsky's championship racing, but then we don't have anyone other than lagat that I'd think had a legit shot in any champ. race