Interesting story for all those concerned with the elite v recreational runner

Yeah, I don't think she necessarily represents all slower runners, I'm sure most don't really care what I'm doing at all, or might admire those faster than them. I guess it was, in your words, an example of "rudness knowing no bounds," mainly I just can't believe that she had the guts to put me down like that.

I would say it's definitely more acceptable to the general public to put down or invalidate a faster runners performance than a slower ones. I'm sure if the average person overheard her say that to me they wouldn't think it was that big a deal, but if I paraded around the finish making fun of those slower than me, I'd catch major flak.

I am a slower marathoner than almost everyone on this board (3:02 PR). Last year, at the end of a coast-to-coast relay, my team decided to celebrate the last day by running the Boston Marathon course together, but at a pace slow enough to ensure that everyone would have the option of running with us the entire way (or joining us en route if they didn't feel like running a full marathon that particular day). To make a long story short, we ran it in about 3:50, which is my longest run ever (timewise). Was it harder than trying to break 3 hours? No way. Not even close. In fact, it was pretty darn easy.

90% of the people that run road races just jog them. They are not hurting at all. The people up front are red-lining it the whole way. They have higher pain thresholds because they have "calloused" themselves through hard workouts.

Your post was very intersting. It made me think a little, I mean for example when I buy groceries, the lady putting threw all my candy, bagels, chocolate, peanut butter, usually snorts and sticks her nose to the ceiling thinking

"well isnt she so lucky to be able to eat all this garbage."

Do they ever happen to think that running 8-10 miles a day might require a little bit more calories than the average hobbie jogger, and that while she's sitting on her ass scarfing down a bucket of timbits from timmy's, I am out there sweating buckets trying to hit my times for an 8 miles tempo?

It really just makes a person realise how ignorant others really are, and how centered and close minded their lives and visions. I have once heard a women tell a young girl about to run an 800m to not warm up because "it would use up all her energy."

and a joke that goes around our team often is that-- one of the girls on our team was out running when a fat lazy slob on a lawn chair with a drink in one hand and the other placed on his large bloated beer belly sighed and said matter-of-factly

"you runners are going to give yourselves heart attacks one day."

To the non-athletic, physically in-active individual, athletes are another breed of the human race.

they believe there are two types of humans, the normal ones with no athletic ability what so ever, and the extremely talented, athletic- born over achievers, that can go out and run a marathon any day of the week. these are the lucky ones that get scholarships for things they have always had, not things that they have earned.

Are their lives harder because when ever they put on a pair of spandex they have to worry about their asses hanging out the bottoms and if people might point and laugh at them? Actually, maybe Id have to say yes.

Because they will go threw life not really seeing anything, not really understanding everything there is to know about life and life as an athlete. They will never know that the only way you can run a 4 minute mile is by putting together 4 sub 60 second laps of an outdour track, which takes years of dedication focus and training.

But its ok really, i mean let these people die with their ignorance and stupidity. It is the athlete that learns all the important lessons in life, dedication, focus, goal setting, rebounding. When you can run 20 miles at sub 6 minute pace, or break 2:30 in a marathon, or run for 3 hours on a 90 degree day because "you have to", things like running a company, landing a huge business deal, make big life changing decisions, they really dont seem that hard.

It is these people that think chemo made Lance Armstrong stronger, that 1 mile is 1609 meters to long, that the things we "athletes" do everyday are physically impossible.

It is the athlete that saves the non-athletes lives and runs their companies, that shows up to work early in order to get a jump start on the day. It is an athlete that probably designed the car they are driving or the sports shirt they are wearing, or the house they are living in.

This is one thing us athletes will keep as a secret........

Behind every great professional, is a bike or a treadmill, with hundreds of training hours logged in its little computer (which was probably designed by another athlete), where daily visits have become a must just to deal with the non-athletes that knock on their doors daily with unneccesairy questions or concerns that only seem to add stress and distract them from the real important stuff going on in the day.

It is the athlete that will someday run the world.

That post was f'ing awesome.

I totally know what you mean about the food issue. One day at work someone commented on the fact that I had two sandwiches, along with carrots and fruit, for lunch. This girl (who happened to be obese, big surprise!) couldn't believe I ate so MUCH! I responded by casually mentioning that I ran about 20 miles per day. She didn't respond, and I have a sneaking suspicion that she thought I was full of it.

On top of the fact that I log more miles than most of these people drive per day, I also am a recovering anorectic, so comments about food are especially unwelcome. However, just like no faster runner would be allowed to comment to slower joggers about their time, no skinny dude would ever be able to make fun of an obese person to their face without facing, at minimum, scorn from other co-workers.

Bump

Before you "real runners" congratulate yourselves on how great you are, I hope you don't find yourself through age or physical breakdown learning the hard way that running a 30

minute 5K can actually be hard work.

The lady is out of line telling the 16 min 5K runner that he doesn't feel pain. Big time. But you are no better when you say that ANYONE who runs "such a slow pace" is only jogging.

Although I never ran at an elite level, I have run 15:50 for 5K and 2:47 for the marathon. And I did train at 70-90 MPW for 3 years while working a full-time job, with a couple of 100 mile weeks for the hell of it. Now, 20 years after those times, I am struggling with a body that's been though a major auto accident and several surgeries as a result. I physically cannot run more than 3 days a week, 20-30 minutes at a time. I swim and bike on non-running days, and I have to work just as hard to run 8-minute mile pace as I once did to run sub-16.

You are welcome to run 5K in my shoes if you think that anyone who runs slow is some sort of subhuman form of slime.

Look, keep in mind that there are people who are "red-lining" to run a 25-minute 5k ... AND ... there are those that are just jogging it. Effort is not bound by time alone, obviously.

I coached a 50-year-old woman once who trained like hell to get from a 28-minute 5k to 23:30 over a few years. Her reward? The pleasure of improvement and starting to place consistently (and sometimes win) her age group. She wasn't fast, but competitive as hell and she did the best with what she had.

p.s. Now I should add to that, that she thought the WORLD of elite runners ... which is opposite the original post. She basically respected anyone who ran their ass off.

I coached a 50-year-old woman once who trained like hell to get from a 28-minute 5k to 23:30 over a few years. Her reward? The pleasure of improvement and starting to place consistently (and sometimes win) her age group. She wasn't fast, but competitive as hell and she did the best with what she had.[/quote]

thus an athlete

"Although I never ran at an elite level, I have run 15:50 for 5K and 2:47 for the marathon. And I did train at 70-90 MPW for 3 years while working a full-time job, with a couple of 100 mile weeks for the hell of it."

and another

Keep in mind the source of the pain. You are in great shape and have assaulted your body for 5k taking the reward of having a great race. Someone can feel an equal amount of pain by jumping of the couch and "running" a 34 minute 5k. There isn't as much honor in suffering because you have chosen to be a slow runner. I always cringe when I see someone try to walk/jog a marathon to tribute a sick or deceased friend and gets news coverage for being courageous. How about suffering through training then give the marathon a try.

Not sure if this really makes sense but take it for what its worth.

Tryon Creek - This is apples and oranges. Sure it was easy for you because it was nowhere near your max. pace for the distance. But take a 3:50 marathoner (100% of their potential is 3:50 compared to your 3:02). Of course it's harder to race at their maximum for 3:50 vs. your 3:02. Go out and run 32-33 miles as hard as you can and then you will feel equivalent to a 3:50 marathoner at the end of their marathon. I doubt you will find it easy.

just another thought...many elite athletes are able to push their body to the limits, and push the pain away in their mind, something that many recreational runners simply cannot do. they are able to maintain a fast pace in a race just because they have trained the mind and body to ignore a pain. this makes them faster and really puts in 100% of their effort. i know no recreational athelete that can do this.

I have to disagree with the 34 minute 5k runner suffering more than the 16:00 guy. Most of the people running over 4 hour marathons and 30 minute 5k are not running as hard as they can. The majority of them are out there smiling and waving as they plug away 10:00+ minute miles. They have no idea how to push themselves to their limits which often has to do with why they are running over 30:00 in the first place (not taking into account people who have had accidents which is a different issue). The person most likely to run into a situation where they are vomiting, shitting themself, or end up with blood in their urine (all signs I would find to be indicative of suffering) is not the back of the packer, but the person up front. Keep in mind that those are not activities I look forward to engaging in, I was just stating them to support my position.

I guess in a lot of ways the "who suffers more" issue is not all that important. However, I don't think it is completely without merit. The lady, and all those like her, who said that about the slow people suffering more are trying to undermine the accomplishments of someone who does well. They are marginalizing the accomplishment of the faster runner by saying it isn't as hard for him or her. And that is where I have a problem with it. Now, if someone has a physical defect (a real one, not a "I'm a fat shit since I eat too much and am therefore disabled") or is actually training hard (not your typical 20 minutes 3 times a week) and still runs over 30 minutes for 5k, then I think you have an argument for them going through more suffering. I respect that person a great deal.

morceli1978- I guess you're not including all the people who have died during marathons. I kind of thought this would be the ultimate sign of suffering.

Author: morceli1978 The person most likely to run into a situation where they are vomiting, shitting themself, or end up with blood in their urine (all signs I would find to be indicative of suffering) is not the back of the packer, but the person up front.

As Sherlock Holmes put it,

"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius."

It seems like this is applicable in a sense to runners. Those of us who are truly striving to always reach the "next level," whether that be breaking 23 in the 5k or 2:22 in the marathon, can appreciate what the elites are doing, because we recognize the amount of work and self-sacrifice it takes to get there. Someone who puts forth a minimal amount of effort and "runs" a 31 min 5k likely has no idea what serious runners must put themselves through to compete at [whatever] level they do, especially the elites. To them, a 15 min 5k is not much different than a 13 min 5k, they both seem darn fast; but to us, there's a world of difference.

Obviously this doesn't apply only to running--I probably got more of this attitude as a tournament chess player than I have since I started competitive running. "Oh chess, that's kind of like checkers, right?" "You actually go to tournaments to play chess?" "Chess, cool, I've played that with my dad a few times." "You actually read books about chess?" Uh, yeah, you need to study it, not just play on Yahoo if you wanna be any good. Last night some guy walked into my room, looked at a book sitting on my microwave, and said "Cheese is My Life? Oh, Chess is My Life...hahahaha."

As others have expressed, I completely respect anyone who gives their all during a race. I'm not so egotistical as to suggest that I am in more pain than everyone who finishes behind me, as if I'm some kind of bad ass mofo. Some may be busting their ass a lot harder than I ever will. That's not really the issue.

The issue is the lady made a point to try to burst my bubble by essentially saying that I didn't have to try hard to accomplish what I did. I've never seen any faster guy or gal say something to another runners face about how slow they went and how they weren't pushing themselves, even if they feel that the current state of road racing is lamentable.

The sad truth is that your average person who doesn't know much about running would likely agree with the woman--yes, I didn't suffer as much as others out on the course longer, my accomplishment isn't an accomplishment, its an act of will.

JMS wrote:

Tryon Creek - This is apples and oranges. Sure it was easy for you because it was nowhere near your max. pace for the distance. But take a 3:50 marathoner (100% of their potential is 3:50 compared to your 3:02). Of course it's harder to race at their maximum for 3:50 vs. your 3:02. Go out and run 32-33 miles as hard as you can and then you will feel equivalent to a 3:50 marathoner at the end of their marathon. I doubt you will find it easy.

Good point. You're right. I guess I was thinking of Bill Rodgers, who once said that he thought it would be harder for him to run a 4:00 marathon than it was for him to run 2:10.

her concept of 'pain' is very different from yours

joggers are basically people with very low pain threshholds