As many top coaches have indicated including Renato(sp?) in final marathon prep (9-12 weeks) there is no need to run faster than 10% below marathon pace (which is about 10k pace).5-6 x 1600 @ 90% of MP w 400j is sufficient once every few weeks.But the typical VO2 Max work is very good prior to that point.
Vo2 max wrote:
What about 5k pace Vo2 max long rep type sessions. Do you need to keep these in your schedule once a week?
Below is one of three Rubio plans I've used. Ran two 2:28's and a 2:27..but I'm also old & fat, without talent. Lot of people got trials qualifiers off very similar stuff.
MARATHON OUTLINE
Intro: This program is designed for post-collegiate distance athletes looking to compete at the marathon distance. Also appropriate for 5k/10k types who much prefer higher mileage programs to those programs based more on track work.
This particular training program is based on the principles of progression and multi-paced training and has consistently resulted in jump in performance for a number of athletes who have followed it.
TRAINING OUTLINE
Break (2 weeks 11/20-12/3): 50-60% weekly mileage
-Training goals: Mentally recover from previous XC season and transition into training for the upcoming track season.
Areas of Training Emphasis
-Run 1-2 recovery weeks. No primary workouts, just run easy. Best if athlete runs daily, length of runs up to the individual.
-If XC season is done at PA’s, re-establish consistent training weeks following the 2 week break. This means get your weekly miles back up to the spring goal levels after your break starting 11/20 and pick up the program with the others starting 12/4.
Transition Period (8 weeks 12/4-12/31 and 1/1-1/26): 80-100% weekly mileage
-Training goals: Consistency, patience, establish the building blocks of future marathon success. Emphasis on aerobic fitness, solid nutrition and injury prevention.
Areas of Training Emphasis (in order or priority)
-Aerobic fitness through mileage buildup, longer runs, double days.
-Mid week longer runs at strong efforts in hills if available
-Anaerobic conditioning (tempo runs)
-Short intervals and hill reps
-Pace of workouts should be controlled. Paces based on comparison charts.
-Not the time to race workouts!
-Paces established by current race performances or by best conservative guess btw coach and athlete.
Areas of Ancillary Training (in order of priority)
-Injury prevention.
-Drills and/or strengthening exercises to prevent recurring injuries are a priority
-Develop solid patterns of sleep and nutrition
-Flexibility
-Strength development
Weekly Training Schedule 12/4-12/31. 85-100% weekly mileage
Sun: Easier long run (20-25% of weekly mileage). 14-16 miles
Mon: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Tues: 3 x 3 x hill reps or Easy Recovery run + 6-8 x 200’s at 3k
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Wed: Hilly longer run at easy to moderate effort. (12-15% of weekly mileage)
Thurs: Easy recovery day of 30-40 min easy or day off.
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Fri: 10-12 x 1k’s at MP or 6-8 miles at 80%.
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Can substitute race for workout if desired. Races during this stage should be CONTROLLED!
Sat: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Easy week: 12/25-12/31:
-Goal of easy weeks are to feel fresh and rested by week’s end. Second runs for the day are optional. All other runs should be cut by 15-20% as well.
Weekly Training Schedule 1/1-1/26. 85-100% weekly mileage
Sun: Easier long run (20-25% of weekly mileage). 16-18 miles
Mon: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Tues: 3 x 3 x hill reps or 15-18 x minutes (60 sec on/off)
Second run of 20-40 min easy.
Wed: Hilly longer run at strong pace on up-hills and final stages of run if feeling heroic. If not, just cover the distance. (12-15% of weekly mileage)
Thurs: Easy recovery day of 30-40 min easy or day off.
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Fri: 2-3 x 5k’s at MP or 5-6 x 1600 at 10k/tempo.
Second run of 20-40 min easy.
Substitute race for workout if desired. Races during this stage should be CONTROLLED!
Sat: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Easy week: 1/22-1/28:
-Goal of easy weeks are to feel fresh and rested by week’s end. Second runs for the day are optional. All other runs should be cut by 15-20% as well.
Optional Supplemental Training (if you have the time to fit this in WITHOUT sacrificing your energy levels for the training above, go for it)
Sun:
Mon: Weights (circuit training, yoga or pilates)
Tues:
Wed: Massage after run.
Thur:
Fri: Weights (circuit training, yoga or pilates)
Sat: Form/speed and/or hurdle drills
Races
-Cal 10 (optional)
-Castle to Coast as tempo run
-Super Bowl 5k-10k (optional)
Race Prep Period (8 weeks 1/29-2/25 & 2/26-3/25). 90-100% weekly mileage
-Training goals: Maintain consistency and patience, incorporate multi-paced training around marathon speeds (400-tempo) as race prep. Workouts and races are still very much controlled. Races during this period focus primarily on testing current levels of fitness.
Areas of Training Emphasis (in order or priority)
-Maintain longer runs, double days, hillier mid week longer runs at a strong effort.
-Anaerobic conditioning (tempo runs)
-VO2max intervals
-Short intervals
-Pace of workouts still controlled. Paces based on comparison charts.
-Not the time to race workouts!
-Paces established by current race performances or by best conservative guess btw coach and athlete.
Areas of Ancillary Training (in order of priority)
-Injury prevention
-Maintain solid patterns of sleep and nutrition
-Flexibility
-Strength maintenance
Weekly Training Schedule 1/29-2/25. 90-100% weekly mileage
Sun: Easier-moderate long run (20-25% of weekly mileage). 18-20 miles
Mon: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Tues: 8-10 x 1k at 10k or 2 x 2 miles in/out 400’s
Second run of 30-50 min easy.
Wed: Longer run on terrain similar to marathon course and final stages of run at a strong effort. (12-15% of weekly mileage)
Thurs: Easy recovery day of 30-40 min easy or day off.
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Fri: 4-5 x 2k at MP/1k’s at 20-30 seconds slower continuous or 4 miles at MP/4 miles at tempo w/ 800 jog w/ 6 mile warm-up.
Second run of 30-50 min easy.
Sat: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Easy week: 2/19-2/25:
-Goal of easy weeks are to feel fresh and rested by week’s end. Second runs for the day are optional. All other runs should be cut by 15-20% as well.
-Hard 10k-half marathon or 13 at MP to test fitness following easy week.
Weekly Training Schedule 2/26-3/25. 90-100% weekly mileage
Sun: Easier-moderate long run (20-25% of weekly mileage). 18-22 miles. Your longest long run should occur 5 weeks before the target race. After this date, it will do more harm than good.
Mon: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Tues: 5-6 x 1600 at 10k or 4 miles in/out 400’s
Second run of 30-50 min easy.
Wed: Longer run on terrain similar to marathon course and final stages of run at a strong effort. (12-15% of weekly mileage)
Thurs: Easy recovery day of 30-40 min easy or day off.
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Fri; 3-4 x 5k at MP/1k’s at 20-30 seconds slower continuous or 4 miles at MP/4 miles at tempo w/ 6 mi warmup.
Second run of 30-50 min easy.
Sat: Maintenance run
Optional second run of 20-40 min easy.
Easy week: 3/19-3/25:
-Goal of easy weeks are to feel fresh and rested by week’s end. Second runs for the day are optional. All other runs should be cut by 15-20% as well.
-15 miles-30k at MP to test fitness following easy week if marathoner. 5k or 10k at Stanford if 10k.
Marathon Taper (3 weeks). Can also be used for target 10k. 3 weeks from target race = 90%, 2 weeks from target = 80%, week of target race = 60% weekly mileage
-Training goals: Time to mentally and physically prep for the job ahead.
-Most ancillary training is dropped.
-Workout rotation similar, just cut by the above recommended %.
-10 days from target race = race specific workout ie. 3 miles at MP, 2 miles at tempo, 1600 at 10k, 800 at 5k or 12-14 miles w/ final 4 at tempo.
Suggested Final week:
Sun: 11-12 mile light progressive run with final 1600 on track of SS/JT.
Mon: Maintenance run at 60% of last month’s Monday run
Optional second run of 20-30 min
Tues: 6 x 1k at 10k or 3 miles of in/outs
Second run of 20-30 min easy
Wed: Easy 40-60 min
Thurs: Easy 30-40 min finishing w/ 4 x minutes
Optional second run of 20-30 min easy
Fri: 30-40 min easy
Sat: 20-30 min easy = light shake out strides
Optional second run of 10-15 min easy
Sun: 10 min walk/jog first thing out of bed.
Marathon.
nice post good info. i like the advanced marathoning method myself. hard LRs are key. don't worry about speed. cuz 5:30 ain't fast but long runs help you keep it up. b
Hey all you math geeks, you didn't call Benji out his milege count? If he did mornings of 1:45-3:00 and doubled 3x a week then unless he was running with my grandma, he was getting in more than 85-95!!How long did he run when he was doing 145mpw? 3-4 hours?Maybe some one could explain this. Is this like Badger miles - estimating 7 min pace? We could have Benji Miles - estimating at 12 min pace.
BenjiFan wrote:
Benji Durden ran 2:09 and change doing something like this:
I ran 85-95 for most of my good years with three days per week of doubles. The mornings were 1:45-3:00 with one day of repeats (mostly 800's at 10K pace), one day that was threshold (though most often this was a 10K or 15K that I trained through) and one day of just running 2:30-3:00 at about 6:40 pace. My afternoons were 45-60 minute runs at whatever I felt like running. My easy days were normally 45 minute runs at 7:00 pace. Frequently the easy days would be 30 easy, weights for 90 minute and then 15 minutes easy. All my runs (including the repeats but not the races) were in at least one set of sweats (I went so far as 2 sets of sweats sandwiched with 3 rainsuits were PO2 tanks).
I tried longer miles. I spent 5 weeks at 140-150 but didn't see the point since I got slower. I spent a year at 110-120. My best before that period was 2:10:41. My best during that period was 2:12:12. It took a year of running 85-95 before I got back to sub 2:12.
It can be argued that the periods of higher mileage made me stronger later. Whie that maybe true, I ran pretty fast before I tried the higher milege and didn't improve dramatically after those periods.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=536234&thread=535788http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/triathlons/trainmarathon.html
TJ wrote:
Did you followed the mileage listed or add to it? A 2nd run per day? Great running
Kept the mileage exactly as published. I just bumped up the level each 21 day phase. For instance, Beck has you doing 22-26 on Thursday Week 2. First cycle, I did 22, then 24, then 26. Easy days are shown as 6-8. Same thing. First cycle I did 6, then 7, then 8. The only quirk with this plan was squeezing in a 26 mile run mid-week, other than that, this plan is great.
Vo2 max wrote:
What about 5k pace Vo2 max long rep type sessions. Do you need to keep these in your schedule once a week?
Lately I've been doing my intervals as more of a 10km workout,
6 to 10 x 1km at about 10km pace, with short rests, 60 seconds.
Previously I was of the mindset that the traditional VO2max intervals, where you completely hammer the 800's or 1000's with 3 minutes rest.