calling all 2:25(ish)ers or better for a marathon

Run long. Run hard. Run to the top.

2:29:56, brother!

2:25 so far (and dropping)

3 week cycle repeated 3-4 times before the goal marathon

Day 1: 10k @ recovery pace

Day 2: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 3: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 4: 10k run @ tempo pace (5k w-u & c-d)

Day 5: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 6: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 7: 38-42k @ comfortable pace

Day 8: 10k @ recovery pace

Day 9: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 10: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 11: 4 x 3k @ tempo pace with 2 min recovery during first 2 cycles; during last 2 cycles I do 15-16k @ Marathon pace

Day 12: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 13: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 14: 32-35k @ steady pace

Day 15: 10k @ recovery pace

Day 16: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 17: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 18: 5-6 x 1600 @ interval pace w 400 jog (+ w-u / c-d)

Day 19: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 20: 20k @ comfortable pace

Day 21: 22-28k @ marathon race pace + 5k c-d

Paces:

recovery pace: 125-130% of Marathon race pace

comfortable pace: 115-120% of marathon race pace

steady pace: 105-110%of marathon race pace

marathon pace: 100% of marathon race pace

tempo pace: 95% of marathon race pace

interval pace: 90% of marathon race pace

Light weights to keep muscle balance on Tuesdays and Fridays - none week before race.

100 sit-ups and 50 push-ups each night (except last 2 days before race)

Add in a half marathon race between 2 or 3 cycle.

May be adding a second run (5k to start) every day except (day 7, 14 and 21) after my spring race.

Ran this time using Beck's Program. 3 cycles of 21 with 2 weeks taper and bingo.

http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/print.asp?id=4835

Only ran 2:27 but am planing on running under 2:25 next time. I'll keep it short. 105-120 MPW. Peak week 120 on singles. 2 workouts 1@5k-15k pace, 1 @HM-M pace. Strides 2x a week. Long run 22-24 miles.

Mathematician Marathoner-

I thought I was the fastest one, (2:33 and getting old, pretty much training like you, maybe a few more kms, sometimes 2xday, w/o the weights).

but I guess I'm not the fastest MM after all.

I am a math professor and run Boston every year.

What kind of mathematician are you?

T

Did you followed the mileage listed or add to it? A 2nd run per day? Great running

I'm a 2:23 guy:

Get your mileage up...around 100 is good if you aren't worried about getting hurt.

The Long run is the most important workout you can do. Over a period of about 10 weeks you should do a weekly long run of about 15-22 miles (do the 22 miler about a month before your race). You should negative split your long runs..ie start at a comfortable pace for the first hour. Work down the last 8-10 miles or so and average around 6min/mile pace or faster (if you are targeting a sub 2:30). The last 4-5 miles can be run closer to 5:30 pace if you want. The idea is to train your liver to store more glycogen for next time around, and to experience the sensation of when your body tries to utilize fat as a fuel. At the right intensity a 22 miler should take around 2.5 hours or the amount of time it would take to race the full marathon all out.

Once a week you should also do a LT workout:

5-7 mile tempo run at half marathon pace (or just a tad faster than goal marathon race pace). Every other week you can switch this up with something like 3 by 2 miles at half pace w/2min rest, or even 10 by 1000m at around 15k race pace w/1min rest.

The rest of your days you should probably double and run at a managable pace. One day a week you might want to do a "semi-long" run of 90-100min at an easier pace (ie around 7min/mile).

3-4 weeks before race day you might want to throw in a couple of v02max type of workouts to get the heart rate up and turn the legs over:

5 by 1 mile at sub 10k race pace w/3min rest is good.

or repeat 800s a little faster.

Don't forget to do some strides every once in a while!

Actually there's a female mathematician who has run faster than that. Gwyn Coogan has run 2:32 and has a Phd in math.

oh boy thats me *giggles*

2:24:20 but not telling where

I'm actually more of a finance geek these days. Mainly corporate treasury type work. Always have loved numbers though, even married an engineer who still amazes me by out computing me in her head.

Thales wrote:

Mathematician Marathoner-

I thought I was the fastest one, (2:33 and getting old, pretty much training like you, maybe a few more kms, sometimes 2xday, w/o the weights).

but I guess I'm not the fastest MM after all.

I am a math professor and run Boston every year.

What kind of mathematician are you?

T

Benji Durden ran 2:09 and change doing something like this:

I ran 85-95 for most of my good years with three days per week of doubles. The mornings were 1:45-3:00 with one day of repeats (mostly 800's at 10K pace), one day that was threshold (though most often this was a 10K or 15K that I trained through) and one day of just running 2:30-3:00 at about 6:40 pace. My afternoons were 45-60 minute runs at whatever I felt like running. My easy days were normally 45 minute runs at 7:00 pace. Frequently the easy days would be 30 easy, weights for 90 minute and then 15 minutes easy. All my runs (including the repeats but not the races) were in at least one set of sweats (I went so far as 2 sets of sweats sandwiched with 3 rainsuits were PO2 tanks).

I tried longer miles. I spent 5 weeks at 140-150 but didn't see the point since I got slower. I spent a year at 110-120. My best before that period was 2:10:41. My best during that period was 2:12:12. It took a year of running 85-95 before I got back to sub 2:12.

It can be argued that the periods of higher mileage made me stronger later. Whie that maybe true, I ran pretty fast before I tried the higher milege and didn't improve dramatically after those periods.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=536234&thread=535788

http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/triathlons/trainmarathon.html

Thanks for the great input, keep it coming, we can all benefit from hearing how different people train. I have been using the pfitzinger approach, but i was thinking about adding more speed work. it sounds like this might not be the best option. i have run 30:14 for 10k and i guess i just assumed i would need to be sub30 shape to run my best marathon. but it seems like sub 30 shape doesn't equal sub-2:20 shape.

Yo, LEG -

A long shot, I'm sure, but where are you located? It'd be sweet to run with a fast gay guy from time to time. Not too many of us around. Haven't run 2:24, but getting there...

Thales wrote:Mathematician Marathoner-

I thought I was the fastest one, (2:33 and getting old, pretty much training like you, maybe a few more kms, sometimes 2xday, w/o the weights).

but I guess I'm not the fastest MM after all.

I think Jasoninwhereverheisthesedays (2:18ish)is a mathematician.

Anyone experiment with this approach?

http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=9254&c=2

I guess its Dr. Rosa's approach where you do Base Work first followed by speed and then strength (marathon paced work).

For some people this may be a better approach than the traditional American marathon training approach.

I've read and been very interested in this approach.Depending on the time I have between marathons I may look at adding a period of faster training before a 3 x 3 week cycle I described above.Nothing too crazy but maybe a couple of months of the following weekly cyle and few races from 10k to half marathon.Mon: 10-15k recovery runTue: Threshold WorkWed: 15-20k @ comfortable paceThu: 15-20k @ comfortable paceFri: VO2 Max WorkSat: 15-20k @ comfortable paceSun: 30-32k @ comfortable paceThreshold work may be:10k Tempo @ HM pace or4 x 3k @ HM pace w 2 min recoveryVO2 Max work may be:8 x 1000 w 400j @ 5k pace (maybe broken into 2 sets) or4-5 x 1600 w 800j @ 5k pace (maybe broken into two sets)I consider this pretty good 10k to half marathon training, so its more speed oriented than my normal marathon prep.

Anyone try this wrote:

Anyone experiment with this approach?

http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=9254&c=2

I guess its Dr. Rosa's approach where you do Base Work first followed by speed and then strength (marathon paced work).

For some people this may be a better approach than the traditional American marathon training approach.

Check out athleticore.com and see what the Hansons are doing. They are a little faster than you, but you'll get the idea.

Above all be flexible with your schedule.

You need to do two kinds of workouts:

(1) Workouts that allow you to FINISH the marathon, that is, basic volume (90 miles a week is good)

(2) Workouts that allow you to run the pace you want to run. If you are aiming for 2:25, then you want to run a lot of 5:30 miles in training. You also want to do some miles and km's around 5:10 per mile, or about 3:12 per km.

What about 5k pace Vo2 max long rep type sessions. Do you need to keep these in your schedule once a week?