Kenya is never getting banned. I could speculate why this is the case but I'd bet my house Kenya will never be banned, though I'm not sure how I'd collect my winnings with that as a time frame. If it was going to happen it would have by now. And I doubt race directors have much stomach to stop bringing in East Africans because they want their winners turning in fast times.
I have a harder time understanding why there are no policies for dealing with agents or coaches who have multiple athletes caught doping. I think it's long past time to address these agents and I think it's long [past time for major road races to offer financial compensation for runners who have been beaten out of prize money by runners later caught doping. I would also suggest that athletes found to have won prize money and doping be required to repay the money as condition for reinstatement and if they don't repay their agents should be required to as a condition for being allowed to represent athletes/
Tracking and clawing back prize money is difficult. Despite its best efforts, the BAA wasn’t able to extract the money from Rita Jeptoo. I’ve for a long time thought that at least some of the prize money should be escrowed until samples are retested with more advanced techniques or until an athlete is definitively cleared. Where collective action to dope is known (not necessarily criminal conspiracy or”official” state action such as Russia), the escrow percent would be higher. WADA and AIU have the legal expertise to do this. Whether the will exists is another question.
I agree that getting money back is difficult especially if the athletes just retire once banned. But agents need to keep working which is why I'd require them to be held responsible for repayment in such cases. But I also think that what you're suggesting should happen.
I didn't say I can't explain "it" either. Poor logic from you. Also, "it'? You wondered about several things in that post of yours, and asked three other questions in your first post here.
And you still haven't explained why you wondered about so many (7?!) things...
It looks like the only point of your posts is to distract from all the doping of Rosa's athletes.
If you can explain even one, then why not pick any one, or pick all seven, and do it? What is the point, or what are the points, of the article?
Are you saying the point of the article is to highlight "the doping of Rosa's athletes"?
What does that have to do with Kiplimo, or Chebet, or for that matter, Rosa? Why gratuitously smear these athletes and Rosa?
And here we go, with six more stupid questions from the troll. Keep them coming.
Why do you ask so many stupid questions?
So you can't explain it either.
Wrong conclusion. The answer to your first question for example is: yes. You still haven't answered any questions about your motivation... so you are ashamed of your questions.
Wrong conclusion. The answer to your first question for example is: yes. You still haven't answered any questions about your motivation... so you are ashamed of your questions.
Your answer is "yes" it is fair to ask? Now we are getting somewhere.
I did answer my motivation. This type of bad "journalism" only serves to harm the sport.
Kenya is never getting banned. I could speculate why this is the case but I'd bet my house Kenya will never be banned, though I'm not sure how I'd collect my winnings with that as a time frame. If it was going to happen it would have by now. And I doubt race directors have much stomach to stop bringing in East Africans because they want their winners turning in fast times.
I have a harder time understanding why there are no policies for dealing with agents or coaches who have multiple athletes caught doping. I think it's long past time to address these agents and I think it's long [past time for major road races to offer financial compensation for runners who have been beaten out of prize money by runners later caught doping. I would also suggest that athletes found to have won prize money and doping be required to repay the money as condition for reinstatement and if they don't repay their agents should be required to as a condition for being allowed to represent athletes/
It is nonsense talking about banning a country. WADA and ADOs would have some power to ban federations, and anti-doping agencies, and declare the Nairobi lab non-compliant. But it hardly makes any sense to talk in terms of banning a country.
There is already a WADA rule that would ban agents and coaches if they were administrating doping to their athletes. In a society that values a policy of innocent until proven guilty, you cannot, and should not, ban agents or coaches based on multiple fallacies without some evidence.
Berardelli currently has six athletes serving bans for PED use. He coaches top 800m man Wanyonyi. Berardelli should be banned and Wanyonyi heavily monitored at minimum. We don’t see you you defending Russia for being banned, only muh Africans. Kenya should be banned, and so should you for being so obtuse.
It is nonsense talking about banning a country. WADA and ADOs would have some power to ban federations, and anti-doping agencies, and declare the Nairobi lab non-compliant. But it hardly makes any sense to talk in terms of banning a country.
There is already a WADA rule that would ban agents and coaches if they were administrating doping to their athletes. In a society that values a policy of innocent until proven guilty, you cannot, and should not, ban agents or coaches based on multiple fallacies without some evidence.
And how are you going to get that evidence?
Rosa is a mobster. No athlete he represents is ever coming out against him for fear of retribution.
The only evidence WADA collects is failed/non-compliance with drug testing. Given the agent isn't taking drugs, how is that gonna be effective?
Surely once you've had a dozen of your athletes popped - you're at the very least guilty of gross negligence.
It is nonsense talking about banning a country. WADA and ADOs would have some power to ban federations, and anti-doping agencies, and declare the Nairobi lab non-compliant. But it hardly makes any sense to talk in terms of banning a country.
There is already a WADA rule that would ban agents and coaches if they were administrating doping to their athletes. In a society that values a policy of innocent until proven guilty, you cannot, and should not, ban agents or coaches based on multiple fallacies without some evidence.
Berardelli currently has six athletes serving bans for PED use. He coaches top 800m man Wanyonyi. Berardelli should be banned and Wanyonyi heavily monitored at minimum. We don’t see you you defending Russia for being banned, only muh Africans. Kenya should be banned, and so should you for being so obtuse.
Exactly. Claudio Berardelli used to be part of the Rosa’s crew, right? After all the suspensions he had testing equipment bought for his training camp to measure, well, you know. That’s how he has likely kept Wanyonyi out of trouble, and it probably explains Wanyoni’s little disappearances/breaks from competition. Where’s there’s smoke … This summer for example, if say Lutkenhaus shows even just a little improvement outdoors, you can bet Berardelli, the Rosas, etc will be going all out on different supplement “formulations” to counter things. While this goes on, Rek will try to redirect your attention to some second rate Russian racewalker or what have you.
Berardelli currently has six athletes serving bans for PED use. He coaches top 800m man Wanyonyi. Berardelli should be banned and Wanyonyi heavily monitored at minimum. We don’t see you you defending Russia for being banned, only muh Africans. Kenya should be banned, and so should you for being so obtuse.
Exactly. Claudio Berardelli used to be part of the Rosa’s crew, right? After all the suspensions he had testing equipment bought for his training camp to measure, well, you know. That’s how he has likely kept Wanyonyi out of trouble, and it probably explains Wanyoni’s little disappearances/breaks from competition. Where’s there’s smoke … This summer for example, if say Lutkenhaus shows even just a little improvement outdoors, you can bet Berardelli, the Rosas, etc will be going all out on different supplement “formulations” to counter things. While this goes on, Rek will try to redirect your attention to some second rate Russian racewalker or what have you.
Berardelli currently has six athletes serving bans for PED use. He coaches top 800m man Wanyonyi. Berardelli should be banned and Wanyonyi heavily monitored at minimum. We don’t see you you defending Russia for being banned, only muh Africans. Kenya should be banned, and so should you for being so obtuse.
If they can link Berardelli to the doping of any of his athletes, he should be banned. This requires making a case that is stronger than a "guilt by association" fallacy.
I can't explain why you didn't see me defending the Russians. Did you look? I have often said that banning the Russian ARAF, and RUSADA, was unfair to the clean Russian athletes who wanted to compete.
Rosa is a mobster. No athlete he represents is ever coming out against him for fear of retribution.
The only evidence WADA collects is failed/non-compliance with drug testing. Given the agent isn't taking drugs, how is that gonna be effective?
Surely once you've had a dozen of your athletes popped - you're at the very least guilty of gross negligence.
Why do I need to get that evidence? That's a job for the AIU or ADAK.
But in the WADA Code, there is a clause that give athletes a reduced sentence for cooperation. Mathew Kisorio was begging to talk to anyone who would listen, even being interviewed by the German investigative journalist Hajo Seppelt.
Rosa is a mobster? WADA can't sanction anyone based on fan fiction. I can be persuaded with real substantial evidence, but not with fallacies and fan fiction.
This type of bad "journalism" only serves to harm the sport.
Last July, Kelsall essentially wrote the same article "Is Frederico Rosa of Rosa Associati complicit with his athletes who dope?" At least the title matches the contents of the article better than "When stars like Jacob Kiplimo and Beatrice Chebet force an uncomfortable question about trust in performance".
In fact, Kelsall has written about Rosa (and Berardelli) no less than twelve times since July 2025, and voiced the same suspicion as far back as 2015, in an article about Russia, saying "If so, it will be interesting to find out if her coach, Claudio Berardelli and agent Frederico Rosa, who threw her under the proverbial bus shortly after her suspension, are complicit."
Here we are 11 years later, still looking with interest to find out if the Italians are complicit. How long can he keep writing the same opinion piece without any real substance?
Last July, Kelsall essentially wrote the same article "Is Frederico Rosa of Rosa Associati complicit with his athletes who dope?" At least the title matches the contents of the article better than "When stars like Jacob Kiplimo and Beatrice Chebet force an uncomfortable question about trust in performance".
In fact, Kelsall has written about Rosa (and Berardelli) no less than twelve times since July 2025, and voiced the same suspicion as far back as 2015, in an article about Russia, saying "If so, it will be interesting to find out if her coach, Claudio Berardelli and agent Frederico Rosa, who threw her under the proverbial bus shortly after her suspension, are complicit."
Here we are 11 years later, still looking with interest to find out if the Italians are complicit. How long can he keep writing the same opinion piece without any real substance?
Why doesn't Kelsall ask the same question about US Sprinters?
Is it because he doesn't care about sprinting? Or is it because he doesn't see the hypocrisy?
This type of bad "journalism" only serves to harm the sport.
Here we are 11 years later, still looking with interest to find out if the Italians are complicit. How long can he keep writing the same opinion piece without any real substance?
I don't think there is a limit. Confirmation of Armstrong's doping took 13 or 14 years.
I'm sorry, but it's not bad for the sport. That's the line that Armstrong used to try to dispel any questions around his doping. These types of pieces are just an outcropping of the current state of the sport. And it's not going to change. Again, look at cycling. There are constant questions and constant articles.
There will always be questions around running because there will always be cheaters. There will always be cheaters because there will always be money and fame attached to being the best.
Banning Kenya is not the best solution, and likely will not happen, unless there is actual evidence of state sponsored doping. However, asking questions and having opinions will not stop. You can expect these types of opinion pieces to go on for another 11, 22, 33, and more years.
Last July, Kelsall essentially wrote the same article "Is Frederico Rosa of Rosa Associati complicit with his athletes who dope?" At least the title matches the contents of the article better than "When stars like Jacob Kiplimo and Beatrice Chebet force an uncomfortable question about trust in performance".
In fact, Kelsall has written about Rosa (and Berardelli) no less than twelve times since July 2025, and voiced the same suspicion as far back as 2015, in an article about Russia, saying "If so, it will be interesting to find out if her coach, Claudio Berardelli and agent Frederico Rosa, who threw her under the proverbial bus shortly after her suspension, are complicit."
Here we are 11 years later, still looking with interest to find out if the Italians are complicit. How long can he keep writing the same opinion piece without any real substance?
Why doesn't Kelsall ask the same question about US Sprinters?
Is it because he doesn't care about sprinting? Or is it because he doesn't see the hypocrisy?
I can't speak for Chris definitively but based on several discussions and exchanges over the years I cannot say he doesn’t care about sprinting but he does not care about it nearly as much as he cares about distance running. Or maybe he doesn't care about sprinting at all.
But look at the massive number of doping threads here. How many of them deal with doped sprinters wherever they're from?
Rosa is a mobster. No athlete he represents is ever coming out against him for fear of retribution.
The only evidence WADA collects is failed/non-compliance with drug testing. Given the agent isn't taking drugs, how is that gonna be effective?
Surely once you've had a dozen of your athletes popped - you're at the very least guilty of gross negligence.
Why do I need to get that evidence? That's a job for the AIU or ADAK.
But in the WADA Code, there is a clause that give athletes a reduced sentence for cooperation. Mathew Kisorio was begging to talk to anyone who would listen, even being interviewed by the German investigative journalist Hajo Seppelt.
Rosa is a mobster? WADA can't sanction anyone based on fan fiction. I can be persuaded with real substantial evidence, but not with fallacies and fan fiction.
Imagine you hire a house cleaner. One day when s/he is coming you leave a fifty dollar bill in plain sight and when you get home it's gone. You have no proof the cleaner took it but no one would say you don't have grounds to fire her. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept which protects that house cleaner from prosecution if her employer is wrong about what happened to that cash.
WADA could sanction Rosa if it wanted to. WADA could create a general policy of sanctioning agents who have X number of athletes caught doping in Y amount of time. And doing this would not only protect non Kenyans from doping Kenyans. It would also protect non doping Kenyans from doping ones
But doing what it does, well really what it doesn't do, waiting for some sort of irrefutable evidence of wrong doing in reality means the current situation can never change.
Here we are 11 years later, still looking with interest to find out if the Italians are complicit. How long can he keep writing the same opinion piece without any real substance?
I don't think there is a limit. Confirmation of Armstrong's doping took 13 or 14 years.
I'm sorry, but it's not bad for the sport. That's the line that Armstrong used to try to dispel any questions around his doping. These types of pieces are just an outcropping of the current state of the sport. And it's not going to change. Again, look at cycling. There are constant questions and constant articles.
There will always be questions around running because there will always be cheaters. There will always be cheaters because there will always be money and fame attached to being the best.
Banning Kenya is not the best solution, and likely will not happen, unless there is actual evidence of state sponsored doping. However, asking questions and having opinions will not stop. You can expect these types of opinion pieces to go on for another 11, 22, 33, and more years.
I have to disagree, the key phrase I'm looking at is "without any real substance".
When we look at the case of Lance Armstrong, we see a huge difference in the category of "real substance" long before he was finally sanctioned. David Walsh with Paul Kimmage discovered Lance was working with Ferrari in secret, had testimony from the soigneuse Emma O'Reilly that she was carrying his drugs and discarding the evidence and putting make-up on IV bruises, and testimony from Betsy Andreu regarding Armstrong's 1996 admission, etc., etc., etc. L'Equipe had French Lab reports from 6 of Armstrong's 1999 samples testing positive for EPO, before writing it's famous piece. And let's not forget that Lance actually did test positive 4x in July 1999 for cortico-steroids.
Now we compare that to running, and these repeated accusations of Rosa's complicity. In these 11 years, what has been uncovered, by any and all investigative journalists or any other party, about Rosa, except that he is an agent for many athletes? Last I checked, being an agent is WADA legal. Rosa was famously accused by the Kenyan government and jailed and put through the Kenyan courts, only for a confused judge to ask, where is the prosecution's evidence?
Maybe it seems unfair to compare Kelsall to the award winning David Walsh, but I would expect something of higher quality with real substance than something Coevett could post on his website.
Why do I need to get that evidence? That's a job for the AIU or ADAK.
But in the WADA Code, there is a clause that give athletes a reduced sentence for cooperation. Mathew Kisorio was begging to talk to anyone who would listen, even being interviewed by the German investigative journalist Hajo Seppelt.
Rosa is a mobster? WADA can't sanction anyone based on fan fiction. I can be persuaded with real substantial evidence, but not with fallacies and fan fiction.
Imagine you hire a house cleaner. One day when s/he is coming you leave a fifty dollar bill in plain sight and when you get home it's gone. You have no proof the cleaner took it but no one would say you don't have grounds to fire her. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept which protects that house cleaner from prosecution if her employer is wrong about what happened to that cash.
WADA could sanction Rosa if it wanted to. WADA could create a general policy of sanctioning agents who have X number of athletes caught doping in Y amount of time. And doing this would not only protect non Kenyans from doping Kenyans. It would also protect non doping Kenyans from doping ones
But doing what it does, well really what it doesn't do, waiting for some sort of irrefutable evidence of wrong doing in reality means the current situation can never change.
Your response to "fan fiction" is to post something starting with "imagine"? At some point, WADA would need something stronger than imagination to ban Rosa.