If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try (32 times) again. Joe Whelan finally breaks 2:10 in his 32nd marathon

The course profile matters. Sure it's not "World Athletics/World Record eligible technically" but that's mainly because it's point-to-point (not because of the slight net downhill) and you can get a massive tailwind (like that one year at Boston). So for official record purposes it's out ( just like Grandmas or Boston etc.)

Not all 26.2 mile race marathons are the same of course and some "don't count" imo. A big downhill Revel race that smoothly drops thousands and thousands of feet is certainly "not OTQ legal" and something that I would not boast about an "Official PR" on (like a certain run-influencer who runs in jeans likes to boast about).

However, if I ran my PR at CIM or Grandmas or Boston (or in my actual case Rock n' Roll San Diego 2011) I'd for sure count it as my official PR. Despite them being point to point and dropping a few hundred feet. Those courses are all OTQ-legal and USATF sanctioned/certified. A big downhill Revel race is certainly not though.

They call him Buffalo Joe. A blue cooler guy.

Glad he's getting some recognition, I don't know anyone who races and wins as much as him its ridiculous.

While racing 5 very competitive fast marathons this year he also beat up on the local OTQ guys at local road races, winning USATF Niagara runner of the year easily.

Respectfully disagree with you Sage. CIM is a point to point net downhill, but it still has over 600 feet of uphill in the race. I definitely think a flat course like Berlin or Chicago is faster as you can maintain a steady even pace, while at CIM your pace constantly fluctuates as you go up and down, and that uses more energy in my experience. I assess I would have run a minute faster or so at Chicago than I did last Sunday at CIM, with similar weather. The usually cool weather there is a big plus.

I see CIM as being approximately equal to a totally flat marathon. And yes I've raced it, not just assessing from the internet. That said there's metrics like the GAP on Strava that support this.

One underrated aspect of the course is how there are very few turns. Easy to just get into a rhythm, run tangents, and not lose momentum turning

Claim him all you want but the man is a proud resident of WEBSTER now so I'm gonna call him WEBSTER Joe.

Heck yea. Inspiring. Congrats Joe. 2:09:41 on a fast course and silver in a US championship

Since when do you get a massive tailwind at CIM? Those are rare. That one year at Boston? Whutchutalkinboutwillis? Boston has a history of once a decade tailwinds. Certainly not one year.

I dunno Malmo....every year I've run Boston there seemed to be a headwind ;)

Seriously though "the year" at Boston I'm referring to is 2011 (when Ryan Hall ran 2:04 and Desi ran 2:22). Mutai almost broke 2:03. There was a pretty significant tailwind that year and it influenced the times.

I'm well aware that there have been many other years at Boston that have had tailwinds (obviously). But in the last 20 years or so I'd say that one was very significant.

The point was that CIM, Grandmas and Boston are all similar because they are not World Athletics approved...they all are still OTQ approved and they are all "rolling courses" with significant uphills. It's the not the fact so much that they are "net downhill" by a few hundred feet...it's the nature of point to point not being approved for official record purposes (which is because of the potential of a tailwind influencing times too much I believe).

You're right.

have you run CIM Rojo? It is FAR from downhill...the first 20 miles is up and down then flattens out the last 10k

Martin Hehir

Colin Bennie

Joe Whelan

3 sub 2:10s for Syracuse alumni in the same decade is pretty cool. Not many schools can boast such a feat.

I'd like to congratulate Whelan on sticking with it for over 10 post-collegiate years after leaving with 8:50s/14:20 credentials. Bet on yourself and never give up.

Sorry-Ilias Aouaini makes 4...

Huge respect for a guy who finally runs 2:09 and is honest enough to realize it's a PR but in a non-record eligible race. True sportsmanship.

Let’s see you go accomplish that time. Joes a world class runner. I always said he never was getting the recognition he deserves and it’s nice that he’s finally getting that recognition. How about you explain why only around 20 Americans have EVER been able to run sub 2:10 despite “downhills”

CIM is a fair course. Out of 20 marathons it has always fallen as hard for me. Joe ran great and this is worth its weight. What makes this event so fast is the weather, pack running, and point to point , ontop of the net downhill!

This is what LR all about baby

I'm curious if there's something to analyze here with Syracuse's training program. Incredible stuff from these guys. Would love to hear from anyone who's been in the program.

Always people who have (probably) never run CIM to be the 1st to try to discredit something cool like a veteran marathoner running sub-2:10 for the 1st time. Same thing happens with Boston results. CIM has plenty of rollers in the first half of the race to keep things pretty honest. What's helpful about the race is 1) the last 10k is a gentle downhill the entire way so if you get to 20 & have legs you're going to do what you set out to do, 2) Sacramento in December brings traditionally good weather, and 3) you get a whole bunch of people toeing the line with similar goals/packing up to go after time goals together. Yeah, it's a net downhill course, but you're reaching if that's what you want to harp on. I'll be the first to go after a race that actually falls off a cliff. That isn't CIM.