If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try (32 times) again. Joe Whelan finally breaks 2:10 in his 32nd marathon

You should care that it was downhill. Anybody can fall down a cliff at 1.59 thon pace.

Please please ask your friend JK to analyze the elevation profile. It has more down than up but it has a fair amount of uphill. You do not gain as much from downhill as you lose from uphill. CIM would be faster if it were completely flat. however it often has nearly perfect weather!

CIM is not "downhill". It has a net elevation loss. As someone else said it has climbing as well and is slower than a totally flat course.

It's not a record-eligible course. Sorry. Try again.

Neither is Boston. If he ran sub 2:10 at Boston would you count it?

Just echoing the above (I ran CIM on the weekend).

Doing my best to be objective, while simultaneously admitting that I PR'ed at CIM: the rolling hills in the first half seemed to negate the net downhill, at least for me. I negative split CIM and the second half has 35m of elevation loss (which is not nothing, but it's not ridiculous). The -90m in the first half marathon are effectively erased by the rolling hills.

Moreover, if you look at the elite field every year people just aren't running that fast. Perhaps you could argue this is because of the talent that shows up, but prior to this year there was a single male under 2:10 (Tsegay Weldlibanos).

I don’t care if it is not record eligible. Science is science and it is slower than a perfectly flat course, because it has more than enough uphill to negate the benefits of the downhill- not to mention fatigue from the pounding.

I have suspected that CIM staff make some of the “off a cliff” posts on here, it would actually be great advertising for the rac and increase registrations!

No.

Wrong. The event website says in bold letters, "The Fastest Course in the West!"

i believe the course is rated slower than Berlin and Chicago. Take that however you want.

No. Only muricans care about "mah bostuhh". We, rest of the world, laugh at you.

It's a "fair course"...it's OTQ legal so there are some standards here.

In my personal experience CIM is faster than a perfectly flat course like Chicago or Rotterdam. It's much "easier" to run fast on compared to Boston too of course (despite being also net downhill and having some uphills). The rollers at CIM are quite small in comparison and you're trending downhill slightly.

The big kicker with "point to point" marathons is whether or not there is a tailwind most of the way. So yeah, that one year at Boston when they had the 20mph+ tailwind it was an "easier course" and "super fast". Tailwinds can happen at CIM also a bit as well.

I'd put CIM more in the category of a Grandma's Marathon (profile and speed). However CIM usually has much cooler weather (ideal) and a ton more packs and competitive American runners going for the OTQ time ranges and faster.

Of course not. Boston is not a record eligible course. But some people hate if, if this gets pointed out.

Point-to-point never counts.

2:10?! I read here that 2:06:30 isn't fast.

Blah, blah, blah all this about the course, it's still 26.2 . The man has raced the distance 5 times this year with amazing times that nobody on this board could come close to. The man is a machine. 17 comments and nobody showing the respect he deserves.

It is awesome. I used to race this guy in college which was A LONG TIME AGO.

For reference, I have kids running middle school cross country (I did not go to byu just saying).

Very inspiring. He’s been on this journey a long time. Grinding it out as a true blue cooler style running hero.

Go Joe, quit nit picking the time. The race was awesome. It was also kind of sad seeing all these old guys still out there doing their thing.

Also shout out to Eastern Washington legend, Kyle King running 2:14 as an officer in the Marines. Pretty sure he’s 35-36

Doesn't matter if we're talking about sub-2:10, sub-2:30, sub-3:00, or sub 3:07. The same principle applies. It has to be done on a record-eligible course for it to count.