We'll just let season play out to see. Amazingly, despite his results he has not really captured the imagination of fans. A special U20 run in Florida might boost that.
He’s an incredible runner, but being an LDS kid who has a small (but noticeable) reputation for being a prick, doesn’t bode well for the fanfare that typically accompanies top HS boys (Caden Leonard, Mantecón or Van Meerten)
Has he? There were two guys within 2.x seconds of him yesterday. The greatest ones in any era destroy their competition. Look what Ritz did to Webb and Hall at 2000 Foot Locker.
QFE. The recency bias in this thread is astounding. Spencer isn’t even in the same conversation as Ritz IMO.
Looking forward to seeing times this year in the Arcadia 3200. It’ll help with the comparisons to see how Spencer and the others do.
We'll just let season play out to see. Amazingly, despite his results he has not really captured the imagination of fans. A special U20 run in Florida might boost that.
He’s an incredible runner, but being an LDS kid who has a small (but noticeable) reputation for being a prick, doesn’t bode well for the fanfare that typically accompanies top HS boys (Caden Leonard, Mantecón or Van Meerten)
We'll just let season play out to see. Amazingly, despite his results he has not really captured the imagination of fans. A special U20 run in Florida might boost that.
Absolutely. That U20 race is gonna push him to his limits, so we’ll see what he can do. I know it’s naive, but crossing my fingers for USA to snag a podium spot.
Right now it's impressive but not notable from a historical perspective. Undefeated seasons aren't unheard of and someone wins NXN every year. However, his 14:16 on Woodward gives his resume quite a bit of heft. Having been on that course many, many times.. wow!
Right now, I think it's just too early to judge. Let's see how he runs at Brooks and at U20s (has he said he's gonna run for sure?) before we make any statements.
That 1970s decade of high school runners could keep up with the best of them.
Get a lineup of Virgin, Hulst, Nelson, Hunt, Kimball, Serna, Chapa, and it’s a tough crew to match.
Only the 2000s decade could match them, maybe.
It is true that Rich Kimball (1974), Eric Hulst (1976), and Thom Hunt (1977) all won World Junior XC championships. However, it was a little easier to win in the 70s because the rise of Ethiopia and Kenya in the early 80s as world distance powers hadn't happened yet. They were all great champions, despite this, but the competition wasn't as strong. I would argue, Dathan Ritzenhein's bronze medal in 2001 behind Kenenisa Bekele at World Juniors is the greatest US high school XC performance of all-time when you consider the strength of the field he faced. Jackson is good, but he's nowhere near that level of international competitiveness.
I appreciate the respect that the original poster and others have paid to outstanding runners of past eras. I also respect Ritz's third-place finish at the World Junior Cross-Country Championships, but finishing two places behind K. Bekele isn't, by itself, as extraordinary as it might seem, because Bekele wasn't really competing against anyone else in that race. Bekele, who had already finished second in the short-course senior race that weekend, simply hung out with a few of the other runners in the 8k junior race until somewhere around the halfway point, when he took off on the muddy course and finished 33 seconds ahead of the second-place finisher, Duncan Lebo Kipkorir from Kenya, and 42 seconds ahead of Ritz, who ran much of the race with his fellow American, Matt Tegenkamp (who finished another nine seconds back). The high-school runner who seems notably absent from this discussion (as far as I've noticed) is Gerry Lindgren, who was one of the several best cross-country and long-distance track runners in the entire world, including both junior and senior runners, when he was a high-school senior in 1963-64. World and national high-school or junior championships in cross-country (or track) running weren't, as far as I'm aware, part of the running scene back then, but I believe that most longtime historians of U.S. high-school running would still name Gerry as the best U.S. high-school cross-country runner ever.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
We'll just let season play out to see. Amazingly, despite his results he has not really captured the imagination of fans. A special U20 run in Florida might boost that.
He’s an incredible runner, but being an LDS kid who has a small (but noticeable) reputation for being a prick, doesn’t bode well for the fanfare that typically accompanies top HS boys (Caden Leonard, Mantecón or Van Meerten)
Hi letsrun posters, I am Jackson Spencer. I decided to make it a rule to not open let's run for about a month and a half ago until after NXN was over. I have just opened it up to read on what people are saying about how they enjoyed the race. I'm surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) to find out that most of the comments here negative which is unfortunate to say the least. I want to settle the score to say that all I enjoy about this sport is the thrill of racing. I think it is pointless to argue about who was better in what era and what not, I think the current era has been enough for myself. I do intend to race U20 world xc championships and I hope to represent the US well. I apologize for seeming like a prick. I will be partaking in another letsrun fast for my own sake. -Jackson Spencer
He’s an incredible runner, but being an LDS kid who has a small (but noticeable) reputation for being a prick, doesn’t bode well for the fanfare that typically accompanies top HS boys (Caden Leonard, Mantecón or Van Meerten)
Hi letsrun posters, I am Jackson Spencer. I decided to make it a rule to not open let's run for about a month and a half ago until after NXN was over. I have just opened it up to read on what people are saying about how they enjoyed the race. I'm surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) to find out that most of the comments here negative which is unfortunate to say the least. I want to settle the score to say that all I enjoy about this sport is the thrill of racing. I think it is pointless to argue about who was better in what era and what not, I think the current era has been enough for myself. I do intend to race U20 world xc championships and I hope to represent the US well. I apologize for seeming like a prick. I will be partaking in another letsrun fast for my own sake. -Jackson Spencer
If this is actually Jackson Spencer, you gotta learn to ignore guys like that if you want to run at a higher level. There will always be naysayers, and you shouldn't apologize for being genuine.
That is a mature perspective to have of the different eras. I'm always happy to see the younger generations be excited about repping the USA internationally. Good luck at Brooks and U20s, wish you the best.
Hunt was a university student when he won the world junior cross country meet. Many are not aware Hulst qualified for the senior team in ‘76, the year he won the junior meet.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Typo
The 3200 is such a non distance, run either 3000 or 2 miles. Gonzales is just into the number of sub 9s for 3200.
I don't understand why he doesn't just run 2 miles and get the 3200 splits along the way. They did it last year for Jane, but had the guys run 3200 meters 5 minutes later anyway. So strange.
The 3200 is such a non distance, run either 3000 or 2 miles. Gonzales is just into the number of sub 9s for 3200.
I don't understand why he doesn't just run 2 miles and get the 3200 splits along the way. They did it last year for Jane, but had the guys run 3200 meters 5 minutes later anyway. So strange.
After seeing Jackson Spencer take NxN, you've gotta put him up there in terms of all time cross country seasons. I know his season isn't over, with Brooks next week (which I believe he'll win) and U20 worlds in January, but the results he's been putting out all year have been insane.
Undefeated all season, winning with an average margin of 21 seconds. This includes insane performances at Woodbridge (18 secs), Clovis (28 secs + CR), and state champs (48 secs + CR).
Broke the favorite curse at NXN, beating out some seriously good competition in Van Meertan and Leonard.
I think this season is wayyyyyy up there in all time lists. I respect the argument that with better training, nutrition, and of course shoes runners have greatly improved over time. However, in this modern era, Spencer has really separated himself from the pack.
Personally, I have him comfortably top 10. If we're only considering modern eras, I'd argue that this season is on a really similar level to what Nico Young did in 2019. What do y'all think? (pls don't tear me apart)
For sure. I don't know what else he could possibly do. He somehow demolished German's legendary Clovis CR which even peak Newbury Park couldn't do when they were tearing up courses all over the country. I don't think it's on the level of Nico Young in 2019 because he was almost comically far ahead of everyone else, but it's definitely hard to argue against him being t10 all time.
It is true that Rich Kimball (1974), Eric Hulst (1976), and Thom Hunt (1977) all won World Junior XC championships. However, it was a little easier to win in the 70s because the rise of Ethiopia and Kenya in the early 80s as world distance powers hadn't happened yet. They were all great champions, despite this, but the competition wasn't as strong. I would argue, Dathan Ritzenhein's bronze medal in 2001 behind Kenenisa Bekele at World Juniors is the greatest US high school XC performance of all-time when you consider the strength of the field he faced. Jackson is good, but he's nowhere near that level of international competitiveness.
I appreciate the respect that the original poster and others have paid to outstanding runners of past eras. I also respect Ritz's third-place finish at the World Junior Cross-Country Championships, but finishing two places behind K. Bekele isn't, by itself, as extraordinary as it might seem, because Bekele wasn't really competing against anyone else in that race. Bekele, who had already finished second in the short-course senior race that weekend, simply hung out with a few of the other runners in the 8k junior race until somewhere around the halfway point, when he took off on the muddy course and finished 33 seconds ahead of the second-place finisher, Duncan Lebo Kipkorir from Kenya, and 42 seconds ahead of Ritz, who ran much of the race with his fellow American, Matt Tegenkamp (who finished another nine seconds back). The high-school runner who seems notably absent from this discussion (as far as I've noticed) is Gerry Lindgren, who was one of the several best cross-country and long-distance track runners in the entire world, including both junior and senior runners, when he was a high-school senior in 1963-64. World and national high-school or junior championships in cross-country (or track) running weren't, as far as I'm aware, part of the running scene back then, but I believe that most longtime historians of U.S. high-school running would still name Gerry as the best U.S. high-school cross-country runner ever.
Lindgren certainly was world class on the track in high school. No one will deny that. His cross country skills are a bit harder to place in context since there were no Footlocker (Brooks these days), NXN or World Junior XC meets in his day. Most cross country meets in his and Jim Ryun's era were for two miles too. In addition, East African dominance in cross country had yet to surface on the world stage in his era. Was he one of the top US XC runners of all-time? Most likely, but there's nothing to compare it to in the modern era, so we can't really say for sure.
After seeing Jackson Spencer take NxN, you've gotta put him up there in terms of all time cross country seasons. I know his season isn't over, with Brooks next week (which I believe he'll win) and U20 worlds in January, but the results he's been putting out all year have been insane.
Undefeated all season, winning with an average margin of 21 seconds. This includes insane performances at Woodbridge (18 secs), Clovis (28 secs + CR), and state champs (48 secs + CR).
Broke the favorite curse at NXN, beating out some seriously good competition in Van Meertan and Leonard.
I think this season is wayyyyyy up there in all time lists. I respect the argument that with better training, nutrition, and of course shoes runners have greatly improved over time. However, in this modern era, Spencer has really separated himself from the pack.
Personally, I have him comfortably top 10. If we're only considering modern eras, I'd argue that this season is on a really similar level to what Nico Young did in 2019. What do y'all think? (pls don't tear me apart)
I mean he beat a guy who has apparently been running seriously for only 18 months by 2 seconds, so not exactly Nico Young type domination of the high school XC world. But he had a fantastic season and should be proud of all he accomplished. Best of luck to him going forward.
If he can win at Brooks next week, I think it's the best high school XC season ever. Undefeated, double national champion (second ever to do this), destroyed one of the most legendary course records in the US at Woodward Park, set the Utah state course record, and gapped the field and Woodbirdge.
You can point to Nico Young's dominance at NXN compared to Spencer, which is fair, but many forget that Leo Daschbach, who would've likely been Nico's best competition at NXN, got injured and didn't race.
If he can win at Brooks next week, I think it's the best high school XC season ever. Undefeated, double national champion (second ever to do this), destroyed one of the most legendary course records in the US at Woodward Park, set the Utah state course record, and gapped the field and Woodbirdge.
This doesn't come close to Ritz senior year. There was no such thing as double national champion. He did stuff that was absurd