According to Christopher Kelsall, the busts are coming so fast that "soon, the country will be reduced to recruiting former Kenyans who now run for Bahrain and elsewhere".
Emma Bates is a marathoner speaking out against the marathoner she finished in second place behind in Chicago. Emma is speaking out against the doper who robbed her of a marathon win.
Why would Emma speak out against a middle distance runner? A middle distance runner has nothing to do with Emma.
You guys can't wait to go back in history and take dopers wins away 🤣 every time. All I'm going to say is at the time they're passing the same tests as everyone else. Some of Emma Bates best friends probably are doping to for all we know In the 2025 pro scene.
Wonder if any American pros were this vocal about Galen rupp competing most of his career with a literal doping coach. Wonder if any pros have made comments about rupp and kipchoge shoes in Rio? Or do they only boldly speak out if it's Russia or Kenya?
I actually do think Emma is clean but only because I don't think she has the resources to dope
Still funny how no pros have an opinion on Salazar and rupp/mo they passed ALL of their tests but no one wants to take away their career wins
This! I’ve been saying this since the last Olympic cycle. The Kenya numbers, both finishing times and the number of men running them, have wrecked the curve in terms of the world thinking what a decent marathon time is. The insanity of having an Olympic qualification time faster than all but 6 nation’s national records is just…. Indefensible.
The point of the Olympics is to compete, and, even with plated modern shoes, a country’s 2:08 marathoner should absolutely be competing. 2:06 is just wrong. But I understand, the Kenyan doping of already potentially world class athletes has made us numb to endless waves of 2:02 and 2:03 performances in Valencia and London and Doha.
Sorry, this is the streaming video age and nobody in the audience cares about or is tuning-in to see a 2:08 guy from Carjackistan finish midpack. He'll be on-screen for about 2 minutes, unless he manages to take out a favorite at a water table or finish DFL in spectacular fashion.
You’ve proved my point here. You sound like you’re so used to turning on the stream from Valencia and seeing Kenyans run 2:02 and not be breathing hard, so of course a 2:07, 2:08 guy isn’t going to make the telecast.
but we know that the lead pack of Kenyans going out in 61:30 in the first half isn’t real. It’s just more dopers going out and holding on for dear life. Well, if they weren’t there you’d have a 2:06 pack and a 2:08 pack and true international competition happened. And it would be better sport on tv than watching anonymous dopers out running 2:02.
Sorry, this is the streaming video age and nobody in the audience cares about or is tuning-in to see a 2:08 guy from Carjackistan finish midpack. He'll be on-screen for about 2 minutes, unless he manages to take out a favorite at a water table or finish DFL in spectacular fashion.
You’ve proved my point here. You sound like you’re so used to turning on the stream from Valencia and seeing Kenyans run 2:02 and not be breathing hard, so of course a 2:07, 2:08 guy isn’t going to make the telecast.
but we know that the lead pack of Kenyans going out in 61:30 in the first half isn’t real. It’s just more dopers going out and holding on for dear life. Well, if they weren’t there you’d have a 2:06 pack and a 2:08 pack and true international competition happened. And it would be better sport on tv than watching anonymous dopers out running 2:02.
Nope, not at all. I watch the OG, maybe the WC, and other WMM. Never watched Valencia or Rotterdam or whatever else. I don't care about the times, neither does the vast majority of the audience. I like to see competition, that's what's most compelling by far, and 2:08 guys just aren't competitive outside of maybe Boston or NYC. It's nice if Mantz or Young can keep up, but I don't turn it off if they aren't capable.
(1) Technically, Emma is right, but she finished 15 minutes behind Ruth. Even if Ruth wasn't doping and Emma was, Emma would still have lost to her by a significant margin.
This would be like me, with a 270 FTP, being mad at Lance Armstrong for doping. Like yeah, I'm right, but Lance and I are in completely different worlds of talent and performance.
(2) Emma still hasn't moved past the fact that she was the hot athletic girl in high school and college who got all the praise and attention for being the hot athletic "Big Fish in a small pod. She's hanging onto this for dear life.
(3) She never called out Shelby
The article in the original post says she lost the 2021 chicago marathon to Ruth by less than 2 minutes.
The article in the original post says she lost the 2021 chicago marathon to Ruth by less than 2 minutes.
Obviously, Emma is in the right here. That being said, Chicago has a pretty thin elite field where they typically blow their international budget on 2-3 athletes max. Chavez/Mac Fleet made the same point here, but it’s unlikely that it’s as simple as Bates running 2:24 and winning a major if Chepn’getich is out of the race. The elite field coordinator doesn’t operate in a vacuum, and Chicagos hook is records. There are so many 2:16-2:18 women who haven’t been busted, who would take the place of a more suspicious expensive athlete in a heartbeat. That year let’s remember there were 5 majors in 6 weeks, so these were highly watered-down races.
But crazy things can happen like Des’ win in Boston where everyone dropped in that weather, or Shalanes NYC win where Mary Keitany was on her period, and Shalane ran great. Chicago is probably the most likely spot for a shock American win but I hope it’s not because they stack the field with one likely doper who flunks a test, but instead an American running great like Sisson in 2022. I feel worse for her, as she’s more in the Shalane range of things where in a thinner field you could have seen her winning her year even without a doping suspension. As much as Bates was “robbed,” she was also getting a ton of attention for running 2:24 because it was second place which was highly circumstantial. Akin to Boston where leading it probably not smartly, when I don’t feel like Fauble got the same acclaim when he did it. Neither were close to winning, and I don’t think anyone in front of them has been busted.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
(1) Technically, Emma is right, but she finished 15 minutes behind Ruth. Even if Ruth wasn't doping and Emma was, Emma would still have lost to her by a significant margin.
This would be like me, with a 270 FTP, being mad at Lance Armstrong for doping. Like yeah, I'm right, but Lance and I are in completely different worlds of talent and performance.
(2) Emma still hasn't moved past the fact that she was the hot athletic girl in high school and college who got all the praise and attention for being the hot athletic "Big Fish in a small pod. She's hanging onto this for dear life.
(3) She never called out Shelby
The article in the original post says she lost the 2021 chicago marathon to Ruth by less than 2 minutes.
Probably more accurate than you might know. I am old enought to remember the East German female swimmers. they had shoulders wider than most NFL players. They were huge. Later, the obvious was revealed that all of them were given steroids. And, that the East Germany government was in on it. I wonder what other countries are still doing this?
Although she is not wrong, where were these outspoken Americans when Shelby was busted? And I don't mean signing that one petition, why didn't they publicly speak out like this?
Sorry but it's hypocritical.
Yep I’ve been saying this the whole time. Where was exactly this sentiment when an American who won 11 US titles, had two American records and made 3+ USA teams was busted? It makes me wonder if they care more about podiums for themselves than they do actual doping and are willing to excuse it when white americans girls do it. It really seems like a pattern there.
The article in the original post says she lost the 2021 chicago marathon to Ruth by less than 2 minutes.
Obviously, Emma is in the right here. That being said, Chicago has a pretty thin elite field where they typically blow their international budget on 2-3 athletes max. Chavez/Mac Fleet made the same point here, but it’s unlikely that it’s as simple as Bates running 2:24 and winning a major if Chepn’getich is out of the race. The elite field coordinator doesn’t operate in a vacuum, and Chicagos hook is records. There are so many 2:16-2:18 women who haven’t been busted, who would take the place of a more suspicious expensive athlete in a heartbeat. That year let’s remember there were 5 majors in 6 weeks, so these were highly watered-down races.
But crazy things can happen like Des’ win in Boston where everyone dropped in that weather, or Shalanes NYC win where Mary Keitany was on her period, and Shalane ran great. Chicago is probably the most likely spot for a shock American win but I hope it’s not because they stack the field with one likely doper who flunks a test, but instead an American running great like Sisson in 2022. I feel worse for her, as she’s more in the Shalane range of things where in a thinner field you could have seen her winning her year even without a doping suspension. As much as Bates was “robbed,” she was also getting a ton of attention for running 2:24 because it was second place which was highly circumstantial. Akin to Boston where leading it probably not smartly, when I don’t feel like Fauble got the same acclaim when he did it. Neither were close to winning, and I don’t think anyone in front of them has been busted.
Noah/Thoughtsleader, you just outed yourself as a covert apologist. Just look at the mental gymnastics you had to do to try to discredit Emma without looking so. Has it occured to you that many of those 2:16-18 are actually just as filthy as Ruth, just lack her talent or responsiveness to drugs? They're coming from a country with 400+ busts FFS.
Noah/Thoughtsleader, you just outed yourself as a covert apologist. Just look at the mental gymnastics you had to do to try to discredit Emma without looking so. Has it occured to you that many of those 2:16-18 are actually just as filthy as Ruth, just lack her talent or responsiveness to drugs? They're coming from a country with 400+ busts FFS.
Or they could be athletes from Ethiopia, Uganda, or anywhere else with some doping positives but not Kenya’s track record. Weird you just assumed it’d be Kenyans.
Of course there’re doped athletes of all levels from all countries. This isn’t apologism, it’s just noting the reality is that races don’t occur in a vacuum. If Ruth was banned before Chicago 2021, they would’ve recruited probably 2-3 women with faster PBs and more robust accomplishments than Bates even with the historic dilution of talent that year.
I’m not discrediting Bates, I’m pointing out that she finished 2nd and ran 2:24 in the shallowest edition (due to COVID) of traditionally the shallowest marathon. So yes maybe she was robbed of winning a marathon in a somewhat freak occurrence (2:24 winning Chicago?), but realistically that level of performance would be lucky to be top 5 in a major. Respect to her, and if she is clean it sucks dirty athletes are taking it from her.
The chemical corporations have been convincing gullible people for centuries that imaginary viruses (that don't exist) have been routinely killing millions of people - but that if you partake of their deadly toxic concoctions that you will be magically immune to those imaginary things (that don't exist).
Being able to convince so many ignorant gullible people of something so ridiculous made it easy for them to later convince those same ignorant people that their toxic chemicals can make super human runners out of poor people in non english speaking countries.
"Every Superstate has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and the truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
With 2:23 PB, she announces "we are in 2:18 shape" and then runs 2:24.
Now she's "grieving" her loss at Chicago in 2021. Chepngetich won that race in 2:22, 2 minutes ahead of Bates. I think there's a good chance that she was clean at the time, considering she ran 13 minutes faster with PEDs.
Chepngetich went out at 2:14 pace and Vivian Kiplagat was right behind her for a while before blowing up and finishing in 2:29. If you took Chepngetich out of the race there's a good chance Kiplagat would have gone out slower and won.
In any case, can you make a WMM any softer than Chicago in an Olympic year the day before Boston?
Although she is not wrong, where were these outspoken Americans when Shelby was busted? And I don't mean signing that one petition, why didn't they publicly speak out like this?
Sorry but it's hypocritical.
Also don’t constantly say you’re a 2:18 marathoner and then run mid 2:20s. Idc if her point is valid or not. Not interested in her opinion. Just be proud of being a 2:23 marathoner (which is very impressive) and stop overcompensating and then I’ll listen to you
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Although she is not wrong, where were these outspoken Americans when Shelby was busted? And I don't mean signing that one petition, why didn't they publicly speak out like this?
Sorry but it's hypocritical.
Yep I’ve been saying this the whole time. Where was exactly this sentiment when an American who won 11 US titles, had two American records and made 3+ USA teams was busted? It makes me wonder if they care more about podiums for themselves than they do actual doping and are willing to excuse it when white americans girls do it. It really seems like a pattern there.
Houlihan doesn't compete in the same event as Bates. I wouldn't expect her to comment on Houlihan or a sprinter/hurdler who was caught either.
According to Christopher Kelsall, the busts are coming so fast that "soon, the country will be reduced to recruiting former Kenyans who now run for Bahrain and elsewhere".