Whether the 'everyone is doping' and 'supershoes ruined the sport' and 'age cheat' arguments are true or not, Phanuel is still the biggest talent EVER, right? Untrained and new to the 1500, soloing a 3:32 and then running 3:27 in his second race ever... that's something even a top 20 (maybe top 10) 1500 guy couldn't do if you put him on every substance known to man.
He is the biggest "doper" EVER. That's for sure.
I doubt it. These Kenyans don't have much money to buy anything crazy. Some EPO during the training phase and that's it
Dope yourself to 3:27. Or at least find an unknown runner, you can dope to a 3:27 on his second race. Then we can talk.
Says it all about this site that your comment gets upvoted. What stupid logic.
So a clean unknown runner can run 3:27 in his second race, but a doped guy can't?
Like ALWAYS, you miss the point.
I don’t think he’s doping any more than other elite athletes—if he were, he’d likely get caught. So, assuming he's micro-dosing like most top-level track runners, the fact that he ran a 3:27 in only his second-ever 1500m race is a sign of extraordinary natural talent and even greater potential. It sounds like you’re suggesting one of two things: A) Koech is using extreme doses of PEDs to run 3:27 this early in his career—which would either get him banned very soon or risk serious health consequences. B) His team has discovered a new doping method or an undetectable drug. If that’s true, we could soon see more runners from his camp—or even his country—putting up world-record-level times, leading to a massive scandal once it's exposed.
It could be a scenario like with A Kiptum or Koech or Kipruto, where he starts out with an artificially high hgb baseline in the ABP - see how long those three WR holders got away with it. A tad less extreme, and they'd still be competing.
PS. I know on an earlier thread some people were skeptical that he ran 3:27 in his 2nd only 1500 of his life . Surely he must have run them in local meets, before? Nope.
JG wrote:
On June 8, Koech raced his first 1500 at Meeting Internazionale Città di Lucca, a World Athletics Continental Tour Challenger event. As far as Lilot knows, Lucca really was Koech's first 1500-meter race -- ever. Lilot even asked his high school coach, who said Koech ran the 800, 3000, and cross country while at St. Francis Kimuron, but never a 1500.
Ultimately the acid test of this is very straight forwards isn't it?
He's now got entry to any 1500m race on the planet that he wants for the foreseeable future. And at the level he's now reached, making the Kenyan team for Tokyo should be very achievable.
If this little golden patch of form can't be replicated and he follows a path similar to his countryman Ronald Kwemoi who he just took the world "junior" record from, then we will have a pretty good idea of how one pops a 3.27 in their second ever 1500m.
And even so, at age 18 and his second lifetime 1500m yielding the 20th fastest time ever run by a human (this includes all the times El G, Lagat, Morceli, Jakob etc have broken 3.30), it's not unreasonable to expect him to be very close to the WR within the next 12-18 months.
The answer to “Where did he come from?” is doping. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise. You can be as naive as you please but once testing ramps up around Worlds this guy will disappear.
Anyone who thinks he’s actually 18 is naive too - but that’s another point entirely.
Using some dope still doesn't make you a 3:27 runner. You have to be extremely talented
Mo Katir had to be extremely talented to run 3:28.
Yeah how on earth could a country like kenya that runs everywhere at altitude be better than the US the land of obesity at running? Age cheat? I remember people saying the same thing about Lagat and then he kicked everyone’s ass for 25 years.
Is the doping sophisticated enough that it might be used on an unknown athlete to see how they perform? and if a particular regiment of doping gets the busted, or not, to benefit the established elites to reduce their chances of getting caught?
I know I'm about to get down voted to oblivion, but jakob has run almost a full second faster but everyone still seems convinced he's not on PEDs. Why?
Mo Katir had to be extremely talented to run 3:28.
I'm pretty sure Katir was a mid (3.35/6) runner without doping. Maybe 20 years ago that was "extremely talented" (in terms of a natural baseline). Given how the sport has evolved, especially in the last 5 years I think that falls more into the "baseline talent" level when it comes to international running these days.
This post was edited 42 seconds after it was posted.
Please have his entire body go through an MRI scan to determine true age.
Does it matter? He ran 3:27. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't break the WR this year.
Innocently asking: Are there people here who care about junior records and results and what age a runner is when they hit an incredible time? Seems like such an American concern or standard.
The England U-21's just won the U-21 Euros in soccer, but they are all just hoping to make their world Cup team.
The athletes who are actually competing for top junior results in running have bigger targets in their minds, and hope to be pursuing more ambitious goals.
If the birth certificate isn't confirmed, don't let them get recorded in the results, but I don't really know anyone who cares what age someone runs a time at, unless it's high school or college, which has it's own set of rules and doesn't apply to all international athletes competing elsewhere.
The answer to “Where did he come from?” is doping. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise. You can be as naive as you please but once testing ramps up around Worlds this guy will disappear.
Anyone who thinks he’s actually 18 is naive too - but that’s another point entirely.
Mo Katir didn’t run 3:28 in his first diamond league race ever. He had years of elite training and apparently doping before running 3:28. If this kid is doping, he has immensely more “talent” than Mo Katir.
The answer to “Where did he come from?” is doping. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise. You can be as naive as you please but once testing ramps up around Worlds this guy will disappear.
Anyone who thinks he’s actually 18 is naive too - but that’s another point entirely.
One only has to look no further than his coach.
Ban the bum Italian coach who has been associated with so many dopers.