Another Kenyan banned

To be bluny, it’s their protective coloring. If any European/Western nation, or say the Japanese, had this many dopers caught (and it’s a sliver of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Kenya) they would be banned outright. But when it comes to any third world nation, especially African nations, officials will do all they can to help cover for their stars, maybe suspend second and third tier athletes, and ignore the rampant cheating. Same way the US looks the other way at cheating sprinters (like Carl in the old days lol). Look at how Russia was treated in comparison to Kenya where cheating is a way of life.

Good point. But I think virtually everyone agrees doping is "present" among all athletes, regardless of level of talent and origin. Where is this rampant denial you allege?

This quote about "risk of doping" you allege comes from WADA doesn't account for the number of samples tested. For example, according to WADA in 2019, bodybuilding has more AAFs and ADRVs than athletics, with almost 26x fewer samples tested. When looking at AAFs and ADRVs as a percentage of samples tested, weightlifting is about twice as dirty as athletics and cycling, and bodybuilding is about 30x. (Source: WADA 2019 ADRV report).

There have been quite a few Kenyan positives for this ingredient. I would not be surprised if some of them were for skin conditions because there are a lot of topical tropical diseases, if you will, out there. I recall these being very common in a neighboring country.

It's not quite accurate to say any nation would be banned outright. Even Russia, as a nation, was not banned outright, as athletes could compete under neutral colors if they met certain conditions. The nations weren't banned, but rather the federations ARAF, and the anti-doping organization RUSADA, and the WADA Lab in Moscow -- not the athletes themselves per se, except on a case-by-case basis.

WADA doesn't seem too concerned, as it is only banned "in-competition". Even then, its use is permitted topically, and in therapeutic doses.

Wow, now you are actually turning into a Jeff Tallon style doping apologist for Kenyans.

For my part, I believe Kenya dopes worse than others because there have been over 400 Kenyan distance doping busts, with new ones appearing every week, compared to a handful in the West over the last couple of decades, despite much better testing. Add to that, incentives to dope are many orders of magnitude greater due to poverty, as well as less of a taboo to dope given the far greater endemic corruption in African societies (which also makes it easier to dope and cover it up). Add to that less effective testing, and several documentaries exposing the ease with which EPO can be obtained in East Africa, even prescription free at high-street pharmacies.

Yes, you can claim that 'everybody dopes', and that the New Zealand government is running a state-sponsored doping program and feeding 12 year olds sarms and steroids, and that we have our heads in the sand and refuse to see it, just as somebody can claim the Earth is flat, or there is a race of super-intelligent octupusses living on the moon, and that we're all too stupid to see the obvious.

You and your army of rekbots and John O. Yes, we know. Same old same old. You two even argue against the performance enhancing effect of anabolic steroids for female 1500 and 5000 m runners lol.

Non sequitur.

Trollism's statement, and mine, was not an argument for, or against, performance enhancing effect, but about not having to prove beyond "a bit of doubt" the reasons for "using the medication" in order to "serve a ban".

No, I don't understand what he's trying to say. Please, tell me.

You should ask him.

I understood that the 2:07 performance was a relevant part of the discussion, and that it would be appropriate to continue the performance part of that discussion.

East Africans have lower IQs than Stanford and Harvard educated American doped distance runners. The things they do and say are downright silly. You never hear of Shocker and Fishery getting busted for low level drugs like acne creams but you will hear of rural East Africans doing so. Sometimes I feel wunder coach Renato Canova could be right that all these low IQ Kenyan athletes might really be victims of poor planning, poor education, poor knowledge rather than intentional drug use!! 2:07 in supershoes isn’t worth a dime in the world of elite marathon.

Coevett dear, any thoughts?

Actually I believe Coevett is incredulous that a 2:07 marathoner needs to dope with some non factor low level acne cream. If it was really staged he would have just went for nandrolone, EPO or testosterone. Why acne cream? Doesn’t make sense here. As a doping apologist, please let us know your stance.

Oh well,when the top kenyans all get popped ,as well as ethiopians,americans,jamaicans and others ,then ill take notice.

LOL what? Aren't you the one who devoted 4 years of your life to arguing that Houlihan might not have doped purposely - against all odds and despite all the evidence? "not all that interested" in that.... hahahaha

How many more posts would you write on topics that you are all that interested in?

Is every thread going to be about Shelby for you?

I spent some of the last 4 years pointing out the role of presumptions combined with a lack of evidence, and how that works against both innocent and guilty athletes alike, and railroads innocent athletes to 4-year bans, if they cannot establish their innocence.

In Shelby's case, I was actually more interested in the question of whether there was an AAF or an ADRV at all. The Panel was of two minds on that question. Any argument "that Houlihan might not have doped purposely" is premature, without first resolving that ambiguity. There can be no intent to commit an ADRV if no ADRV was committed in the first place.

It's not just 'acne cream'. It was the go to drug for Bradley Wiggins and David Millar too, and neither of them had an acne problem.

Millar says he's never used anything like it for quick, noticeable results.

Now, you're just being disingenuous.

I'll be a more specific. What is your perception of what Covett is saying?

There you have it folks - A few more pages or irrefutable proof that Kenya (and Ethiopia) should be BANNED permanently.

How many more positives do you need? How many more runners were robbed of their rightful placings by the cheating African drug using age cheats?

What difference does his PB make? He's a cheat. Done.