Full disclosure, my kids are vaxxed for measles but this video is a perfect illustration of what's wrong with the world today. If you aren't vaxxed, that's on you and most likely you will be fine. If you are vaxxed for measelse, other people getting really doesn't impact you does it - so back out of their lives.
Since much of the vaccine debate centers on children, two points:
First, under the law, children do not for the most part have agency to make their own health decisions. Just as the state has an interest in protecting children from physical abuse, it has an interest in protecting children from harmful healthcare decisions made by parents on their behalf. No child should die because their parent is incapable of making sound healthcare decisions for them.
Second, most vaccine mandates center on schools. Schools have a responsibility to keep their students safe. They don't allow students to bring deadly weapons to school, and they shouldn't allow unvaccinated students to attend.
Contrary to what you stated, low vaccination rates can absolutely impact people who have been vaccinated. Ask anyone whose child is undergoing leukemia treatments.
Wow. Radical paternalism on full display here.
The state has an incentive to protect children from abuse? Schools are responsible for keeping their students safe? Were you raised in one or more government schools?
State has an incentive to do whatever benefits the “stakeholders” which are big agriculture, big pharma, arms makers, and the unionized “public” bureaucratic institutions that seem to depend on constant taxation and money printing for life.
How do children figure into that? As products and as slaves.
The health and skills of children (and adults for that matter) have been inversely correlated with industrial government schooling systems. Nearly 150 years of government schooling has made folks stupid, unhealthy, and dependent — and at massive financial cost.
And it makes total sense. The state has backwards incentives and predatory stakeholders. The result is precisely what one would expect from a system with such deep principle agent problems.
Some parents will do better than others, but they are the only folks that have anything remotely resembling proper incentives.
why are we talking anecdotally ("well, i had it, and the neighbor's kid....") about things for which there are actual statistics?
it's a highly infectious disease spread by breathing where 1-in-16 gets pneumonia and 1-in-500 dies. in an elementary with 1000 kids, 2 would likely die.
that's stupid when the vaccine number would be 0 infected, 0 dead.
Definitely. You should just pay like a 5k fee to cover the burden your choices are placing on society. Who would object to taking on responsibility for their actions?
All for localizing risk as much as possible. But it is practically impossible in a system where the money is a tool for muting the expression of most preferences, while simultaneously excusing abusive practices by industrial stakeholders.
In short, the perverse incentives and resulting bubbles in a Keynesian Ponzi scheme are indicative of a commitment to NOT pricing risk appropriately, and to socializing any and all risk that benefits those running the money printing apparatus.
Indeed, if robust cost benefit analysis was done this was being done, then not only would the COVID response have been almost nothing — and certainly not lockdowns, “warp speed” research, continuous fear mongering, and coercion to consume 9-month-old pharmaceutical products with no legal recourse for the guinea pigs.
The folks selling the products and mandating their uptake seem totally uninterested in any robust cost benefit /risk analysis that would be required to underpin the kind of cost localization you suggest. In fact, they want everything but risk localization — to the degree that they are willing to take a malady with extremely localized risks and to spread them at great cost.
The idea that the system totally fails to localize risk for COVID, but can and will do so for measles seems odd.
Finally, to answer your question as to who would object, I suspect folks who have been chowing down on toxic fda-approved “food,” and inhaling carcinogenic anti microbial disinfectants and herbicides used in and around their houses might object to paying for the costs of their decisions — ones that may be far more harmful than failing to consume any single pharmaceutical product.
I’d be all for it. But it requires all costs to be localized and for the folks “regulating” to be unable to bail anyone out.
why are we talking anecdotally ("well, i had it, and the neighbor's kid....") about things for which there are actual statistics?
it's a highly infectious disease spread by breathing where 1-in-16 gets pneumonia and 1-in-500 dies. in an elementary with 1000 kids, 2 would likely die.
that's stupid when the vaccine number would be 0 infected, 0 dead.
Your assumption is that the statistics are collected correctly and impartially. Big assumption.
Definitely. You should just pay like a 5k fee to cover the burden your choices are placing on society. Who would object to taking on responsibility for their actions?
Amazing. You people apparently got through covid and the lesson was "we need more government control". And when you agree with "mandates", do you mean jail to start, eventually prison, or banished to an island? What specific fundamental rights of individuals do you support removing?
What's fascinating about you people is normies like me pre-covid thought the guns nuts were insane to suggest we need 400 million of them in this country to defend against a totalitarian government. But if covid radicalized me in one way, it's that because so many of you people exist, which I naively didn't realize, I have a moral duty to arm myself to protect my family from authoritarians like you. Especially if you gain power in government.
So yes, I'll make the decision to vaccinate my kids at my discretion. Which they are for most things. But if you think that decision will rest with anyone but myself, it's not going to end well for you.
I did the same thing. And I realized that not only do I have a responsibility to arm myself, but also friends and family who are a bit slower to learn, should the scenario arise.
The paternalists on this thread are truly terrified of a world in which authority is wrong - to the point where they would sacrifice their lives to maintain the illusion.
Of course many probably also object to wars and think soldiers are dumb for blindly entrusting their lives to the whims of politicians paid off by Lockheed and Boeing (among many others.) So it is a case of selective trust, depending on the industry, and perhaps depending on the amount of virtue that can be claimed by defending the industry. In other words — people and institutions with a track record of abuse and mass murder can be fully trustworthy or not at all trustworthy based on exogenous factors.
It must be terrifying for them, and additionally terrifying the longer they refuse to see it for what it is.
Full disclosure, my kids are vaxxed for measles but this video is a perfect illustration of what's wrong with the world today. If you aren't vaxxed, that's on you and most likely you will be fine. If you are vaxxed for measelse, other people getting really doesn't impact you does it - so back out of their lives.
So you are using a horrid tv sitcom from the 60s to support your case? That is seriously weak.
The measles vaccine was licensed in 1963. In 1960 there were 380 deaths in the US. In 1970, about the time of the Brady Bunch there were 89 deaths (it should be noted 1965 had 276 deaths). Maybe it was just really ignorant of the writers of the show to downplay this?
Full disclosure, my kids are vaxxed for measles but this video is a perfect illustration of what's wrong with the world today. If you aren't vaxxed, that's on you and most likely you will be fine. If you are vaxxed for measelse, other people getting really doesn't impact you does it - so back out of their lives.
So you are using a horrid tv sitcom from the 60s to support your case? That is seriously weak.
The measles vaccine was licensed in 1963. In 1960 there were 380 deaths in the US. In 1970, about the time of the Brady Bunch there were 89 deaths (it should be noted 1965 had 276 deaths). Maybe it was just really ignorant of the writers of the show to downplay this?
You mention purported benefit. You do not mention cost. There is no argument without a robust understanding of both.
Were proper long term double blind studies measuring all outcomes done for this product?
ow vaccination rates can absolutely impact people who have been vaccinated. Ask anyone whose child is undergoing leukemia treatments.
So your child got leukemia after you forced it to get the toxic deadly vaccinations, and you're trying to blame your own personal abuse of your child on healthy children?????
Actually that's quite typical of stupid people who can't face the reality of their own poor decisions, i.e. blame it on someone else who has nothing to do with it, in this case healthy children who haven't been poisoned.
ow vaccination rates can absolutely impact people who have been vaccinated. Ask anyone whose child is undergoing leukemia treatments.
So your child got leukemia after you forced it to get the toxic deadly vaccinations, and you're trying to blame your own personal abuse of your child on healthy children?????
Actually that's quite typical of stupid people who can't face the reality of their own poor decisions, i.e. blame it on someone else who has nothing to do with it, in this case healthy children who haven't been poisoned.
Er, umm, I think Antelope111 meant that children being treated for leukemia have weakened immune systems and are at elevated risk for communicable diseases.
Since much of the vaccine debate centers on children, two points:
First, under the law, children do not for the most part have agency to make their own health decisions. Just as the state has an interest in protecting children from physical abuse, it has an interest in protecting children from harmful healthcare decisions made by parents on their behalf. No child should die because their parent is incapable of making sound healthcare decisions for them.
Second, most vaccine mandates center on schools. Schools have a responsibility to keep their students safe. They don't allow students to bring deadly weapons to school, and they shouldn't allow unvaccinated students to attend.
Contrary to what you stated, low vaccination rates can absolutely impact people who have been vaccinated. Ask anyone whose child is undergoing leukemia treatments.
Wow. Radical paternalism on full display here.
The state has an incentive to protect children from abuse? Schools are responsible for keeping their students safe? Were you raised in one or more government schools?
State has an incentive to do whatever benefits the “stakeholders” which are big agriculture, big pharma, arms makers, and the unionized “public” bureaucratic institutions that seem to depend on constant taxation and money printing for life.
How do children figure into that? As products and as slaves.
The health and skills of children (and adults for that matter) have been inversely correlated with industrial government schooling systems. Nearly 150 years of government schooling has made folks stupid, unhealthy, and dependent — and at massive financial cost.
And it makes total sense. The state has backwards incentives and predatory stakeholders. The result is precisely what one would expect from a system with such deep principle agent problems.
Some parents will do better than others, but they are the only folks that have anything remotely resembling proper incentives.
I wish we paid for schools the way we pay for food, clothing, or cars. If you want to send your kids to a Montessori school, a religious school, or any other type of private school, you currently usually get no credit for the taxes paid that fund the public schools local to you that your kids do not attend.
Surveys indicate that many people favor the idea of allowing the money to follow the students, or vouchers, but even in conservative states when such measures are on the ballots they often lose. I suspect that people fear the transition to such funding.
Imagine if we had to pay for food, clothing, or cars the way we now pay for K-12 public schools in the USA. Your property taxes would fund the local public food, clothing, or car supplier, but if you wanted food, clothing, or a car from a private supplier, you would get no credit for the taxes you paid when making your private purchase.
The measles vaccine is shown to be extremely effective against it, and has minimal adverse effects unless used on pregnant women. This is one disease you don’t want to play around, conservetards.