It’s certainly possible that Hocker or Kerr might be faster than Jakob over a 100 meters with a running start with all of them totally fresh with a baseline lactate and low HR, but that irrelevant for the last 100 in a race like Paris. Whoever is redlining the least and has the shortest distance left to race will win. Jakob keeps insisting he can lead most of the way and still have the best physiological parameters at the end, and so far that has not been the case.
yup. the field has leveled up. it's entirely possible that what jakob did in 2024 was good enough to win in 22 and 23, but those days are over.
I think Hocker has something special on a final lap, or even accelerating in an instant over the last 100. but I don't think anybody else out there has something special that jakob is missing.
Yeah man, Hocker’s ability to change his rate of acceleration is really good. He lost momentum after being cut off by Jakob, but revved it back up in such a short distance. It was beautiful.
The splits were incorrect. He did go under 53s with a lot in lane 2. It is true his acceleration isn’t the fastest, but Id say there’s a max speed Q and an acceleration distinction. A couple guys have both, and a few guys have neither.
Until proven otherwise, the kick available at the end of a 1500 like the Paris final is not a consequence of some innate ability that say Hocker possesses but Jakob does not. Rather if you measured the top 5 runners lactate, HR, respiratory rate, subjective feeling of exhaustion with 100 meters to go, you are going to be able to pick the winner. On that day in Paris Jakob was compromised because he led most of the way. That’s why he lost, not because he can’t kick. If Hocker had traded roles in the race with Jakob, it would be Hocker that was kicked down at the end.
If Hocker had traded roles with Jakob he wouldn’t push the pace and it would look more like Rio
El G never thought he needed to be the pacemaker until his personal pacemaker got dropped. In 2004, he took the lead early and increased the pace gradually every 100m until Lagat couldn't decisively pass him and he gutted home with the win.
To be precise, El G took the lead at 700m after the Kenyans took it out slowly in 60, 1:47 (700). Even at 800m, the pace was only 2:01. Had it continued like that, it would have been Lagat's race. Instead, El G ran a last 800 of 1:46 (close to Lagat's pr, and he raced the 800m quite a few times), accelerating every 100m. In Tokyo, Jakob took over the pace 20 seconds in, took them through 300 in 41 and 400 in 56, a healthy pace, before Tim took over at 450m. Tim sped up slightly in 55. to take the field to 800m in 1:51.76. 1200m was reached by Tim in 2:47.24, another mid 55 lap. Jakob closed in about 55/41/27, so he essentially ran even splits for the race with a split pickup the last 200m. He only passed Tim at the end of the last turn with 100m to go. So, obviously, he is going to need Tim or Nuguse to take the pace for part of the way if he wants to win in Tokyo again.
"I think everyone but Jakob has a really good kick, but Jakob is normally too far ahead to catch anyway"
Love Hobbs, glad he's looking to be in contention this year. I still think he's gonna win gold in 2028, and it's a good sign that he's confident enough in himself and his training to think he can make it to the next level (ie where the top 4 are).
I'm a big Hobbs fan, but I'm not sure I buy that his kick is any better than Jakob's. The narrative that Jakob can't close races well is way overblown.
this. A 3:26 guy can almost certainly close a 3:34 in 51 seconds. Which he has done. Is that not a good kick?
If he had a good kick he would have won one of those global championship 1500 titles since 2021. He hasn't. Every time he has lost he has been outkicked. 3 guys outkicked him in Paris.
If he had a good kick he would have won one of those global championship 1500 titles since 2021. He hasn't. Every time he has lost he has been outkicked. 3 guys outkicked him in Paris.
Do you think it's fair to compare kicks when one person was getting paced for 1300 meters while the other front ran 1300 meters? If Josh Kerr front ran 1300 meters do you think he would stick outkick everyone?
If he had a good kick he would have won one of those global championship 1500 titles since 2021. He hasn't. Every time he has lost he has been outkicked. 3 guys outkicked him in Paris.
Do you think it's fair to compare kicks when one person was getting paced for 1300 meters while the other front ran 1300 meters? If Josh Kerr front ran 1300 meters do you think he would stick outkick everyone?
Kerr has outkicked Ingebrigtsen in 3 consecutive races - the WC (in which he wasn't "paced" by Ingebrigtsen), at Prefontaine, when Kerr lead from the last 700m - and so paced Ingebrigtsen - and in Paris, when he outkicked Ingebrigtsen over the last 80m. He simply has a better finish than Ingebrigtsen. But - so we have seen - have Wightman, Hocker and Nuguse. Others will no doubt follow. (Kessler?) Whether he runs from the front or is led by others Ingebrigtsen is vulnerable to faster finishers in the 1500. His best option may be the long drive for home, as El G showed at Athens. But El G was the better 1500 runner; Ingebrigtsen may not have it now at this distance.
You're all saying the same thing and just being stubborn about acknowledging the other is right. Its annoying. He got outkicked. Everyone knows that. His kick was also compromised from leading. You have to agree with that if you've ever run competitively in your life. So both statements are correct. The poster who said Jacob doesn't have a kicking problem but a tactics problem hit the nail on the head. When Jacob doesn't lead he often kicks better than anyone in the field.
everyone here is debating speed over final 400 but i dont think that's the real focus. I think we're talking the final 120 where it's all turnover and mechanics. In this, Jakob is probably not even top 7. But his ability to close over 5-400m is good enough that in most of his races the final 80m doesn't matter
Positioning, strategy and intelligence are key in a field of 1500 guys separated by 6 seconds or less in PRs. Taking that olympic race wire to wire ain't happening unless you're running a WR and/or have the best kick.
I agree with you, but keep in mind Jakob is pretty damn close to the WR at this point.
Nobody is within sniffing distance of him in terms of pure fitness and ability.
I can hardly wait to see how Jakob claps back on Hobbs:
'I will take him seriously when he wins any medal in any outdoor championship, whether Olympics or worlds. Or a Diamond League. Or even wins his own national meet.'
Has Hobbs ever won ANY major race, other than the one-mile at the "World Road Running Championships"? 😆 (A "world record" that an 800m man Wanyoni easily smashed by two seconds the next year, in his first and only run at the distance.)
No. Hobbs has not done any of these things. This guy, who has never won a major race, is talking crap about a multiple 1500m/5000m WC/OG winner's kicking ability. Remarkable.
If Kerr had said this, half the message board would be peeing their pants
you are correct. Kessler is an idiot, the same as Kerr would be to say this. The difference is that Kessler isn't really at a level where this is worth responding to. But I will anyway.
Funny thing is, despite leading the whole race and being at a tremendous disadvantage for it, Jakob still had a faster final 400 than Kessler. He had a faster final 300. He had a faster final 200. He had a faster final 100.
El G never thought he needed to be the pacemaker until his personal pacemaker got dropped. In 2004, he took the lead early and increased the pace gradually every 100m until Lagat couldn't decisively pass him and he gutted home with the win.
Amen to that. And that’s why El G, clean no less, is the true Maroc hero! All of Spain, a stone’s throw from Morocco , worships his greatness!
This post was edited 17 seconds after it was posted.
If Kerr had said this, half the message board would be peeing their pants
Probably because Hobbs is far more likable.
Yes it’s not fair to Kerr. Americans should show more love for Mother Britain as after all nearly 30 percent of America’s demographic is probably made up of British immigrants and colonialists!!
Without Winston Churchill’s Great Britain, and to a certain extent without Josh Kerr, America would never be the superpower it is today!
There is nothing wrong with Kerr, he is an innocent boy who does things differently cleanly and people get jealous at how he is able to be so good without drugs!
yup. the field has leveled up. it's entirely possible that what jakob did in 2024 was good enough to win in 22 and 23, but those days are over.
I think Hocker has something special on a final lap, or even accelerating in an instant over the last 100. but I don't think anybody else out there has something special that jakob is missing.
Yeah man, Hocker’s ability to change his rate of acceleration is really good. He lost momentum after being cut off by Jakob, but revved it back up in such a short distance. It was beautiful.
Rate of acceleration? What is that - the rate of change of the rate of change of speed? Pretty sure that's not a thing
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