Big Gap on lactate(mmol) and aerobic zones

If you feel bad the next day (or your next scheduled workout) then you pushed too hard or ran too far. If you feel good then you nailed it.

Yes im actually in 15:30 shape because i did it 2 weeks ago, im 25 but started running at 22 beside my past of crossfit and gym, i consider that my problem is what some guys call "aerobic deficiency syndrome" not threshold, but posting this just know the opinion of other runners

You have tools that work, why ignore them and just workout in blind mode? Makes no sense, if you want progress you need to use metrics and science to your favor. Or do you think JakobIng run by effort?

Read this:

https://www.letsrun.com/2005/jkfitness.php

Lactate levels are not transferable from athlete to athlete. So there is no general lactate zone.

Lactate measurment is sensitive to: hydration level, carb level, time of day, ...

Calculators are for the mass, they can't provide an individual solution. If you are lucky it works.

Lactate levels are dependent on intensity and duration. So there is no information provided what units you have done. So overall i have the feeling you do not know what you are doing.

Funny how you have that feeling just because of a question.

Funny how i went from 38 to 32 on 10km in 2 years without knowing what im doing..

This is just a question to know how can i improve this gap, if you want to know how/when i measured it, the workout was 4x2k at threshold (3 to 4 mmol) with 1' rest.

EFFORT:

* is also incredibly subjective

* isn't exact enough

* can be distorted by many different factors, such as; having a coffee before or not, the dopamine hit one gets from seeing fast splits, training with others, etc

There comes a time when you've maxed out the gains you get from being "around-about" in your training, and you actually want to hone in on particular intensities. In this case, effort just doesn't cut it, because humans are not precise in their estimations of things. Sometimes you need an external metric to hold you to account.

That's around 15:50 with training shoes.

With training shoes:

LT1 4:05 (1.0-1.5mmol)

LT2 3:25 (4.0 mmol)

I both agree and disagree with this. Training by effort and feel is what I do, although I will analyse trends based on the data that is spat out. I will also use HR on easy runs and long runs as a way of keeping things “in check”.

People should use these tools to better understand what they’re feeling when they’re training and therefore run ever better based on feel. Some people really need those tools to understand that they’re running their easy days far too fast, for instance. Until they see their HR going up to 85% of max on a supposed easy run, they think simply because they can, they should. Ego gets in the way of training successfully on feel a lot, and the tools can be a great ego check.

You just know. It’s called feel. Analytics obsessed dweebs don’t understand or have the patience to develop that knowledge.

They think they know better.

Got it. Please refer to my point about the various stresses that can increase your blood lactate readings. That's what the readings are for. To not get married to a pace and to accurately assess effort. For example, I've run 64 mins in the half marathon. However, my blood lactate levels for 2.0-2.5mmol 2k rep usually falls around 5:15-5:20 per mile. Per your science, I should be able to do these reps at 4:52 per mile. However, the fatigue from past training and high mileage doesn't allow me to hit this pace in practice for 5 x 2k. So the reading is a way to ensure you're not cooking yourself to hit pace. If you came here for an explanation as to why your lactate levels are high for your "Threshold pace", this is your answer.

Why can’t it be?

I would totally agree with this statements. It definitely can be your easy run pace. Check out the Norwegian Singles thread. sirpoc there is probably around or a touch faster than the OP.

He just ran a 10k in 3:08s and his easy run pace is maybe like 4:30 give or take. We know this as he has shared all his training and data.

For him that is below a lactate tested LT1 and it'll result in something around 65-68% max HR.

Its not just a good thread from a training standpoint, but also gives a lot of data jump off points to what or where probably still undeveloped hobby joggers are at.

So why can't you run by feel?

Feel is science

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Rating of perceived exertion and blood lactate concentration during submaximal running - PubMed

We examined whether the relation between of ratings of perceived exertion (RPE) and exercise intensities associated with the lactate threshold (LT) and blood lactate concentrations (BLC) of 2.5 and 4.0 mM, established with an...

Open link

When I was in good shape, I was always able to run perfect splis in training and racing. It just requires a bit of practice and common sense.

If you've read any of my previous replies, you'll see where I mention that running by feel is what I recommended this athlete does. I coach many athletes across various distances who have achieved success while their programs are based on "efforts".

However, often times when you feel good, you run a bit too hard than the effort you should be putting in. This is why the world's best athletes use lactate testing. It's not to make sure you're trying enough. It's to dot your I's and cross your T's. When you're running high mileage, it's easy to fall into a state of fatigue. If you could take a sample and find out in 30 seconds if you're hitting the zone correctly. Why wouldn't you?

I hope your perfect splits and common sense led to some pretty decent results.

This paper is a good example that going by feel during a run is very tricky as RPE changes! That means it is not very well suited to adjust the pace during a session.

However, it might be possible to guide the pace for the next session, based on RPE (at the end) of the last session. Assuming it is the same kind of session.

And going by pace remains the method of choice.