Cole Hocker won the Paris 1500m because Nguse broke 3:30 last year? Rather than a revolution, it’s having three ultra talented runners at the same time.
It will be interesting to see how the U.S. all-time list looks in 2030. Any predictions?
That’s a difficult task. Nguse and Hocker are old enough to possibly have peaked. Kessler should continue to improve, but it’s difficult to project which runners from the next level, will improve by 5+ seconds.
Why did Roisin Willis make such a mistake and choose to represent the US? She ran 1:59.1 and could have breezed to global teams for Ireland.
If I had dual citizenship / the right to compete for another country (obviously excluding Kenya and Ethiopia) I'd almost certainly compete for them
It's not too late for Roisin Willis to switch to another country. Right now while she's in college it's much easier to run in US Championships because Eugene is a quick flight from Stanford while Ireland is obviously a much longer flight plus jet lag.
But after Roisin Willis graduates there is nothing stopping her from represent Ireland.
Lagat was representing Kenya at the time. Mondo Duplantis was born in the U.S. and has American citizenship, but his pole vault marks don't count as U.S. records because he represents Sweden.
Mondo did have the US record, but he's the reason for why the rules changed when people started asking how someone could set the new US record by a mark achieved in the European championships
Lagat was representing Kenya at the time. Mondo Duplantis was born in the U.S. and has American citizenship, but his pole vault marks don't count as U.S. records because he represents Sweden.
Mondo did have the US record, but he's the reason for why the rules changed when people started asking how someone could set the new US record by a mark achieved in the European championships
Great find! Thanks for sharing. I stand corrected. I just searched the USATF website, and I saw that USATF actually does recognize Lagat's 3:27.40 as the American record:
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It's fascinating to see the discrepancies in published records. USATF lists Lagat's 3:27.40 as the American record, yet World Athletics has Hocker's 3:27.65 as the NACAC record:
And I've just discovered that Track & Field News contains discrepancies on its own website. I had been going by their published all-time list, which has Hocker as #1:
Nuguse has three diamond league wins and a national outdoor title (and an Olympic Bronze).
There aren’t many people in distance running with better collections of results in the past two years.
Hocker, Wightman (2022), Kerr, Ingebrigtsen
The only one of those guys he’s slower than is Wightman, so at worst he’s 5th in placing, and 4th in times. Hardly a time trial merchant or whatever that other guy was calling him.
Nuguse is more consistent than Hocker in the big races.
They're both remarkably consistent in big races. They've both made 3 out of the last 4 U.S. outdoor global championship teams, with both missing out in 2022 when they struggled with injuries.
Hocker, to his credit, has run a PB in 6 of the last 7 outdoor championship finals he's run:
The problem with these "National Records" is that in the modern era, people move around. It isn't like the 1890s when you could claim to be the fastest "Irishman" or fastest "Frenchman."
At some point, the best sprinter in every country's record book will be of West African descent. At some point, every national record in the long distances will be held by an East African runner.
That is okay, and I am not "being racist." It is just a fact that if the best Turk and best German and best Australian in the 100m are all from West African ethnic groups, it doesn't really tell us anything about Turkey, Germany, or Australia.
My point being, the "National Record" is not really much of a reflection on your nation if the guy who holds it just got citizenship a month before the race (like Lagat).
p.s. I like Lagat but I don't brag about how great "American running" is by pointing to him...
The only one of those guys he’s slower than is Wightman, so at worst he’s 5th in placing, and 4th in times. Hardly a time trial merchant or whatever that other guy was calling him.
Isn't he slower than Ingebrigtsen? He's slower than Kerr too, right? Isn't Hocker's PR slightly better?
The problem with these "National Records" is that in the modern era, people move around. It isn't like the 1890s when you could claim to be the fastest "Irishman" or fastest "Frenchman."
At some point, the best sprinter in every country's record book will be of West African descent. At some point, every national record in the long distances will be held by an East African runner.
That is okay, and I am not "being racist." It is just a fact that if the best Turk and best German and best Australian in the 100m are all from West African ethnic groups, it doesn't really tell us anything about Turkey, Germany, or Australia.
My point being, the "National Record" is not really much of a reflection on your nation if the guy who holds it just got citizenship a month before the race (like Lagat).
p.s. I like Lagat but I don't brag about how great "American running" is by pointing to him...
By that logic, the only American records that would be meaningful would be those set by Indigenous runners.
Remember, Lagat moved to the U.S. to run for Washington State in 1996, and he has lived here since then. Living and training in the U.S., and having the benefits of American resources, had a major role in his development and success.
The only one of those guys he’s slower than is Wightman, so at worst he’s 5th in placing, and 4th in times. Hardly a time trial merchant or whatever that other guy was calling him.
Isn't he slower than Ingebrigtsen? He's slower than Kerr too, right? Isn't Hocker's PR slightly better?
Did I misunderstand your post?
I mistyped it. Nuguse is faster (by time) than Wightman, and slower than the others.
My point was that prior to the waves of colonialism and trans-Atlantic migration, people were 99% likely to be from the same country as their ethnicity. Almost all Italians lived in Italy. Almost all Russians lived in Russia.
It made sense to ask who the fastest Danish runner was in 1912. Now, obviously, the best Danish runner is Kipketer.
For one more century, the National Records will make sense. But when a Kenyan is the fastest Japanese runner, that will not make sense to me.
By that logic, the only American records that would be meaningful would be those set by Indigenous runners.
Your point about Native American runners is spot on. I do want to know who the fastest Native American runner is. Is it still Billy Mills? I doubt that. But who knows. Their best runners are doomed to remain unknown.
They are drowned out by the fact that every wave of immigration has made it less likely that we'll ever acknowledge their "best runner" because that person will be slower than Lagat (who is now an American).
My point was that prior to the waves of colonialism and trans-Atlantic migration, people were 99% likely to be from the same country as their ethnicity. Almost all Italians lived in Italy. Almost all Russians lived in Russia.
It made sense to ask who the fastest Danish runner was in 1912. Now, obviously, the best Danish runner is Kipketer.
For one more century, the National Records will make sense. But when a Kenyan is the fastest Japanese runner, that will not make sense to me.
I hear you. It would admittedly seem weird for a Kenyan to be the Japanese record holder.
My personal litmus test for acceptability is where a runner had the bulk of their development. I fully accept Lagat and Khannouchi as American record-holders because they developed into world-beaters while living and training in the U.S. They didn't arrive here at age 25, fully formed. I also accept runners who provide military service, such as those in the WCAP.
My point was that prior to the waves of colonialism and trans-Atlantic migration, people were 99% likely to be from the same country as their ethnicity. Almost all Italians lived in Italy. Almost all Russians lived in Russia.
It made sense to ask who the fastest Danish runner was in 1912. Now, obviously, the best Danish runner is Kipketer.
For one more century, the National Records will make sense. But when a Kenyan is the fastest Japanese runner, that will not make sense to me.
I mean just look at the Ingebrigtsens and Andreas Almgren in Sweden and Norway. It's hardly unthinkable that an ethnic Dane can beat Kipketer as the best Danish runner. Andreas Almgren is holding every single Swedish record from the 1500 to the half marathon, we're still underdeveloped running nations up here in Scandinavia.
I mean just look at the Ingebrigtsens and Andreas Almgren in Sweden and Norway. It's hardly unthinkable that an ethnic Dane can beat Kipketer as the best Danish runner. Andreas Almgren is holding every single Swedish record from the 1500 to the half marathon, we're still underdeveloped running nations up here in Scandinavia.
I agree. I really, really hope the world continues to develop the way we have seen in the last decade. It has been a good decade with amazing Japanese marathoners, Norwegian 1500m runners, Guatemalans like Luis Grijalva, Americans like Grant Fisher and Cole Hocker, etc. have competed with the best runners from East Africa.
But if you are a runner from the olden-days like I am, you remember a time where it was conceivable that every nation's national record would eventually be held by Kenyan runners. 20 years ago, it was rough for all the non-Kalenjin humans.
The 5000 metres or 5000-metre run is a common long-distance running event in track and field, approximately equivalent to 3 miles 188 yards or 16,404 feet 2 inches. It is one of the track events in the Olympic Games and the W...
One of my favorite features of the World Athletics Stats Zone is it lets users look at all-time lists as they stood at a particular point in time. I just went through the lists to see if I could find years since Jim Ryun's era when an American miler/1500 guy dominated the all-time list like Nuguse now. Here are the best examples I found, in chronological order starting with Ryun:
1972: Jim Ryun was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, & 10 in the mile.
1981: Steve Scott was 1, 4, 6, 8, & 10 in the 1500.
1985: Sydney Maree was 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, & 11 in the 1500 (Scott was 3, 4, 7, & 8).
1986: Steve Scott was 1, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, & 10 in the mile (Maree was 4, 5, 7, & 11).
1997: Steve Holman was 4, 5, 8, 9, & 11 in the 1500.
2006: Bernard Lagat was 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, & 9 in the 1500.
I wonder how many of the top 20 M400H times Edwin Moses would have had at one point. 16? SML probably hasn't run enough W400H races in the last few years to have as many of the top 20 times.
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