Can I OTQ in the marathon and run sub-4 in the mile in my early 30s?

What was your training like for your first and second marathons?

If your goal is 2:18 (2024 men's OTQ) great but the 2028 OTQ could be faster. FYI- World Athletics will most likely make the 2028 Olympic Games qualifying standards faster in order to have the percentage of athletes qualifying by means of the World Rankings.

Hard to say.

I am slower than you, but whittled away at mile-Half PRs all through my 30s.

At 30, My PRS were 450/1655/119. At 40 they were 423/1509/110.

I ran XC in HS and broke 18 exactly once, so you’re definitely more talented than me. What I can offer is that for you to reach your potential, it will likely take most of your 30s to do so.

Notice I don’t have a marathon PR? That’s because any consistent weeks over 75 miles would result in injury. I can rock 50s and 60s year round, but the mileage I would try to get in marathon shape (70-85) was just too much to handle.

You’ve been given good advice on this thread, even if some of it is contradictory. I think you need to pick a plan, and stick to it. Be ready to run year round. “Off” times will simply be backing off miles.

So short version I was a 15 min 5k guy in highschool cross, but basically drank myself out of college. So I knew I had talent.

i never let myself go over those years but hardly ran, just worked and drank beer, lifted weights, hiked etc. after my 2:26 I got up to 100 mile weeks. Took me 8 months from first marathon to the 2:17

Thank you all for taking the time to share insights / experiences.

For now I’ll plan on running a half tune up, marathon, and a mile over the next 6 months and see where I’m at, then try to figure out which path makes sense.

Totally hear what some of you are saying in that 2:47 is very far away from OTQ (whatever it ends up being), but I’m banking on being able to make a big leap since I was relatively out of shape for my first one.

I’ll look more into plans / coaches—in the meantime, open to any suggestions on that front or any other advice!

I think the biggest concern on the Marathon front is the lack of volume in your background. To run 2:18 (or faster) you are going to need to be running at least 80mpw (realistically closer to 100). If your body can handle it and the Marathon specific work then you might have a shot at that goal.

The biggest concern for the mile is that mile specific work often takes longer to recover from the older you get. At 32/33 you will need to work way harder to get the speed back that you had in HS. I think 4:00 is a super ambitious goal but sub-4:10 seems possible if your body handles the workouts.

I was in a similar spot a few years ago. I was not quite as talented as you but ran 4:20/9:15/14:57 in HS and had a similar post HS trajectory. I tried to OTQ for the last trials after getting back into running during Covid. Ran 2:42 12 weeks into running again. 8 months after that I ran 15:10 for 5000 on about 70mpw and a year later ran 2:26 for the marathon (74mpw average for the year but topped out at 88). at that point I realized that I needed to take training to a higher level to drop another 8 minutes. My body couldn't handle the extra volume/intensity and I ended up in an injury cycle. I also took a shot at my HS PRs the spring after I ran 2:26 and got to 4:26 (mile), 9:24 (3200), 15:06 (5000), my body did not handle the intensity required to train for the mile very well.

Good luck on your journey! I hope you get there.

Pretty similar in age to you here. I was nowhere as close to your talent level (4:52/10:26/16:30) but I ran in college/grad school and brought my times down to 15:30/25:40 before taking two years off of serious training when I moved post grad. Most of my college career was filled with injury bouts and never really had much more than a couple months of consistent running without a setback.

First marathon was 2:41 w/ a 4 minute negative split in Sept 2018. Then 2:34 at Boston '19, 2:30 a Cbus '19, 2:28 at Boston '22, 2:23:5x at Chicago '22, 2:23:2x at Boston '23, then 2:19:1x at CIM '23.

I tried high mileage at first heading into Boston/Cbus and got hurt as I started getting to peak mileage. Ended up backing off to 6 days a week of running and sticking to 60-70 miles. Added some strength training and then was able to successfully run higher mileage but still added that day off which I felt helped me a ton.

Can't give much advice from a mile perspective but my suggestion from a marathoning perspective is to keep an eye on your effort level, especially when you get to higher mileage. The new shoe technology has helped a lot with being able to do more volume than we would've done in our college days but if you're anything like I was when I started marathoning there is a tendency to run too fast on your easy days. I spent most of my running career in a rollercoaster of injury/comebacks just due to trying to play catchup.

While some people may laugh at the strides thing you mentioned, I think given your injury history it's probably not such a bad idea to just focus on trying to get to higher mileage without too much intensity aside from maybe some LR work. There's some people that can run pretty good on relatively lower mileage but they aren't trying to come back off years of not consistently running. Take your time with the next marathon and play it conservative (especially boston, it has a habit of spitting even the most seasoned out). I tried to set too many ambitious goals once I ran 2:30 and it took me a bit to get to that next level. Get some marks on the board (stay healthy for a block/get some other races done) and then readjust. I've definitely seen crazier things.

Appreciate the advice! That’s impressive where you ended up—you still going after it? Did you follow any specific plans, work with a coach, make your own plan?

My career has definitely been a rollercoaster as well and took me a long time to learn to take my easy runs easy. My coach’s prescription was to average low 6:00s for every run, but definitely not doing that anymore.

@CARunner12, thanks for the wisdom as well! Will try to push my mileage up and build up speed as well, hopefully without breaking down too much. How did you structure your training? Similar to what you did in HS, or did you find another plan or coach that resonated with you?

I joined a running club that has a coach and a large group of people who are focused on 1 spring marathon and 1 fall marathon. I tweaked the training because it called for too intense sessions more frequently than my body could handle.

I also think I did not quite reach my potential even when training well because I let my social life cut in to my recovery too often and it caused unnecessary setbacks. For example, I went to 4 weddings and 3 bachelor parties during the buildup to my Marathon PR. Running a hard long session after 10+ drinks and 6 hours of broken sleep takes a toll on a 30+ year old.

The schedule for the club plan was workouts on Tuesday (usually Threshold reps or something more V02 max based) and Saturday (more marathon specific) with a LR on Sunday and occasionally a short workout on Thursday. I found that to be too many days with intensity for me and it left me burnt out. What ended up working best for me was the following:

Monday: easy run in Am + speed development PM

Tuesday: workout with club usually something between 1k-2mile repeats between 4-8 miles worth of work depending on the stage of the training block

Wed: Medium long (90-105minutes)

Thursday: recovery either 2 30-35 minute runs or 1 60-70 minute run (very easy pace)

Friday: same as Thursday but add strides

Saturday: Long Run w/marathon specific workout included (i.e. 20 miles with first 5 easy then 3x3mile @MP, 1 mile float in between, 4 mile cooldown or 20 miles with the last 6@Mp). This all built in duration of MP work over the course of the buildup and I had one LR every 3 weeks that was just easy pace although I often did it on hilly trails.

Sun: off or 30-45 minutes very easy.

In my best buildups I raced relatively frequently too on race weeks I would adjust and replace my big Saturday LR/workout with a race day and long cooldown. I raced at distances from 5k (both XC and road) to Half Marathon. Before my Marathon PR I raced 6 times during a 14 week build, including a Half Marathon PR 22 days prior to my Marathon PR.

This is what seemed to work for me short term. I improved consistently for 2 years straight but have stagnated or regressed since then. I am still working to find a way to take the next step but will have to wait a little while because my wife and I have a newborn and childcare plus my full time job doesn't leave much room for running.

Thanks for all of the details! Always a struggle to balance everything. Congrats on the newborn!

What did you do for the Monday speed development? Was that in service of your marathon goals or more for building speed for your shorter distance goals?

When you went after your HS times, did you continue to train with the club or did you create you create your own plan?

Thanks!

I personally think the speed development is helpful across all distances and becomes increasingly important as I age. When I was younger I could go for a long time without actually sprinting and get my top speed back within 1-2 sessions. Now it takes consistent maintenance to avoid losing a step. It seems to keep my mechanics from getting sloppy and to help stave off injuries. Also, I think being comfortable sprinting all out makes all other paces feel easier.

My speed development protocol is pretty simple. I do a 10-15 minute easy warm-up and then 2-3 sets of drills. I have a friend who is a High School Sprints Coach who has given me some of the drills that his kids do. When I have the opportunity to work out with him I include some work over wickets too but those sessions are few and far between.

The meat of the session is 4-6 all out efforts of about 5-10 seconds with full recovery. On the track I do 40-60 meters in spikes with 3-4 minutes between reps. If I don't have track access I do 6-10 seconds on a hill with 3-4 minutes of recovery. I finish it out with 2-4 80-100 meter strides at around 800 pace (this comes recommended from my sprint coach friend who does this as a cool down with his sprinters).

A. I don't believe this story

B. Focus on breaking 4 and then transition to female for the already low-hanging women's OTQ

Yep! Took a year off fast courses since the standard hadn't opened up and I needed a mental break after that block. Ran a 50k in Madison and was in the sub elite corral for NYC. Both were fairly subpar races but I had a great year of consistency and should land just at 3100 miles for the year, the most in my life.

I've worked with the same coach since 2019. We've been friends for quite a while from the old Dyestat days. We've played around with a lot of different things, some worked and some didn't. My body doesn't respond well to long/aggressive fartleks so we've back off of that. Did a lot of stuff at threshold effort in the mid week and then long runs on the weekend with a variety of work during or near the end. I don't do too much long efforts at straight MP for a lot of the block. This last block we did a couple things that the BYU marathoners were doing with fatigued miles and I really enjoyed that.

Took me longer than I'd like to admit too. lol. Especially when running alone you just want to finish it up.